PatLaabs Posted July 13, 2023 Share #1 Posted July 13, 2023 I got this patch a few months ago but forgot about it until just now. It appears to be a Specialist T 1st Class but with an 1897 style crow that could be found here: Any ideas what I could be? It's also seems to be made on 2 seperate pieces of wool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Minton Posted July 13, 2023 Share #2 Posted July 13, 2023 That is not an 1894 style crow in my opinion, just not typical style 1940s. Since Specialist T was not created until WWII, my guess is foreign/tailor made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigsaye Posted July 13, 2023 Share #3 Posted July 13, 2023 1 hour ago, David Minton said: That is not an 1894 style crow in my opinion, just not typical style 1940s. Since Specialist T was not created until WWII, my guess is foreign/tailor made. I would go with poorly tailor made. Not sure if “Specialist T”, would have served outside the States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatLaabs Posted July 13, 2023 Author Share #4 Posted July 13, 2023 3 hours ago, sigsaye said: I would go with poorly tailor made. Not sure if “Specialist T”, would have served outside the States. I agree with both of you. I have quite a few foreign made rates but this one is by far the ugliest and I wasn't too sure what to make of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
268th C.A. Posted July 13, 2023 Share #5 Posted July 13, 2023 Its an oddity for sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigsaye Posted July 13, 2023 Share #6 Posted July 13, 2023 I’ve never seen a rating badge, “Pieced” like that. And, an entirely ugly eagle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FRISCAN Posted July 14, 2023 Share #7 Posted July 14, 2023 "SP(T)" - Specialist "T" - there are two ratings... "T" = "Teacher" and there is another "T" = Link Trainer Instructor They "could" operate outside the States... but, this rating is definitely an "oddity". FRISCAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpcsdan Posted July 14, 2023 Share #8 Posted July 14, 2023 My thoughts… This is a variant, more likely a manufacturer’s “transition” interpretation of the unseen new uniform regulations about the new rating badge design for 1894 regulations. At least four examples of this very same eagle have been documented. As for the two-piece construction of your piece, that’s a mystery, as well as the Specialist T mark being used on a “crow” from the early 1900s. Aside from the known practice of applying specialist marks to finished rating badges when the user purchased them, that large a gap in production and usage would be especially questionable. The below gunner’s mate example was in my collection for many years and Jason, on this forum, has two or three examples in his collection. I believe Jason has both blue and white examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigsaye Posted July 14, 2023 Share #9 Posted July 14, 2023 39 minutes ago, dpcsdan said: My thoughts… This is a variant, more likely a manufacturer’s “transition” interpretation of the unseen new uniform regulations about the new rating badge design for 1894 regulations. At least four examples of this very same eagle have been documented. As for the two-piece construction of your piece, that’s a mystery, as well as the Specialist T mark being used on a “crow” from the early 1900s. Aside from the known practice of applying specialist marks to finished rating badges when the user purchased them, that large a gap in production and usage would be especially questionable. The below gunner’s mate example was in my collection for many years and Jason, on this forum, has two or three examples in his collection. I believe Jason has both blue and white examples. Well, you learn something new every day. It’s nice to know that the 1984 “Fat Parrot/Surrendering Chicken”, wasn’t the Navy’s first run in with awful, ugly eagles. I still wonder about the pieces backing fabric. That’s terrible. I do that when making reproduction uniforms, but it was a standard practice to save on fabric in the past. 99.9% of the time, the “Piecing”, is fine in a place where it won’t be seen, like coat facings or under collars. ( I have seen a plaid civilian coat that had 5 inches added to each sleeve, and whoever did it (1840s), didn’t even match up the pattern). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikie Posted July 14, 2023 Share #10 Posted July 14, 2023 I love a good mystery. I have no idea how these patches were manufactured. If mass produced by machine, is it possible that two sections of backing fabric were stitched together to ease feeding, and then this particular patch happened to be automatically embroidered over the seam? I can’t imagine how or why this could have been done on purpose. mikie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvage Sailor Posted July 14, 2023 Share #11 Posted July 14, 2023 4 hours ago, sigsaye said: Well, you learn something new every day. It’s nice to know that the 1984 “Fat Parrot/Surrendering Chicken”, wasn’t the Navy’s first run in with awful, ugly eagles. I still wonder about the pieces backing fabric. That’s terrible. I do that when making reproduction uniforms, but it was a standard practice to save on fabric in the past. 99.9% of the time, the “Piecing”, is fine in a place where it won’t be seen, like coat facings or under collars. ( I have seen a plaid civilian coat that had 5 inches added to each sleeve, and whoever did it (1840s), didn’t even match up the pattern). "Fat Parrots" and "Surrendering Chickens" Right and oh so Wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigsaye Posted July 14, 2023 Share #12 Posted July 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Salvage Sailor said: "Fat Parrots" and "Surrendering Chickens" Right and oh so Wrong... When I first saw those crappy post 1984 crow, I was stationed in Japan and thought they were some garbage guys were buying on the street because the exchange was out of real crows. That was a common occurrence back then. Most of us who knew the difference, would pass on old crows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin B. Posted July 15, 2023 Share #13 Posted July 15, 2023 I seem to remember... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatLaabs Posted July 15, 2023 Author Share #14 Posted July 15, 2023 22 minutes ago, Justin B. said: I seem to remember... When I saw this post my immediate thought came back to my ugly rate I bought lol. Very interesting for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin B. Posted July 15, 2023 Share #15 Posted July 15, 2023 Right now, my guess is a NY Navy Militia torpedo rating, which apparently existed at some point. I'm not even sure what the actual title was. https://www.google.com/books/edition/History_of_the_First_Battalion_Naval_Mil/p_gtAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=torp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigsaye Posted July 15, 2023 Share #16 Posted July 15, 2023 44 minutes ago, Justin B. said: Right now, my guess is a NY Navy Militia torpedo rating, which apparently existed at some point. I'm not even sure what the actual title was. https://www.google.com/books/edition/History_of_the_First_Battalion_Naval_Mil/p_gtAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=torp Well then, that could solve the whole thing. Not even USN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatLaabs Posted July 17, 2023 Author Share #17 Posted July 17, 2023 On 7/15/2023 at 11:47 AM, Justin B. said: Right now, my guess is a NY Navy Militia torpedo rating, which apparently existed at some point. I'm not even sure what the actual title was. https://www.google.com/books/edition/History_of_the_First_Battalion_Naval_Mil/p_gtAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=torp Don't suppose there's any pictures of the rating? I tried searching last night but came back with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin B. Posted July 18, 2023 Share #18 Posted July 18, 2023 On 7/17/2023 at 6:38 AM, PatLaabs said: Don't suppose there's any pictures of the rating? I tried searching last night but came back with nothing. No, me neither. I think that will probably be hard to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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