WESKE? BOKER 155? Are they the same?

[Boy Howdy]

I saw this knife for sale on eBay and the seller is saying it is a WESKE/Boker 155. All the Boker 155's I've ever seen are marked "BOKER 155" This is only marked "WESKE USA". It has an asking price of $475. Is this a SAC survival knife or a commercial copy?

Thank you in advance. 

[sactroop]

I don't know what to tell you.  The knife with it's unique half guard and lanyard hole are the right configuration for a SAC 155.  More to the point the sheath, which was a privately supplied item for the SAC knives is also a correct one.

[sactroop]

Here are the other pictures that go with this auction.  # 364170288063 .  Notice that the last picture is of a different knife and sheath.  In that case I would say that is a picture of a known good SAC issued Boker U.S.A.  155.  

Maybe someone here is familiar with WESKE/USA.  It seems like there is more to the story, at least more to it than I'm aware of.

 

[WarBaby]

Matt @ St. Croix Blades is a good guy, I don't believe he would mislead anyone but I don't know enough about the knife to offer much input.

[RWW]

On 18 August 1955 the Air Force did a Mil Spec for a "Knife, Hunting, With Sheath" under MIL-K-4988 which was the SAC Boker 155. The sheath was to conform to Air Force drawing 50B3938, which is the sheath shown with this knife. It is possible Weske could have made the knife under a Govt contract per the Mil Spec, or the knife could have been submitted as a preproduction test sample, or even made for the civilian market. All the documentation I have on early SAC survival kits calls for a Boker 155, or equal. It certainly looks equal.

 

This would be a good one for some of you knife guys that are great at researching contracts to see what you can turn up.

[dustin]

11 hours ago, RWW said:

On 18 August 1955 the Air Force did a Mil Spec for a "Knife, Hunting, With Sheath" under MIL-K-4988 which was the SAC Boker 155. The sheath was to conform to Air Force drawing 50B3938, which is the sheath shown with this knife. It is possible Weske could have made the knife under a Govt contract per the Mil Spec, or the knife could have been submitted as a preproduction test sample, or even made for the civilian market. All the documentation I have on early SAC survival kits calls for a Boker 155, or equal. It certainly looks equal.

 

This would be a good one for some of you knife guys that are great at researching contracts to see what you can turn up.

That is a bit interesting in that the sheath drawing is fiscal year 1950, but yet the Spec. was effective 1955. Any details on the discrepancy?

 

[RWW]

The sheath was originally designed for the Boker 155 as a component for the SAC E-1 Survival Kit. The original E-1 kit Spec. was dated 24 August 1950. The E-1 kit was designed by SAC and the SAC Land Survival School and even the SAC Land Survival Guide were written around the E-1 kit. When the kit was designed, SAC chose the best gear, both commercial and military they could find to fit their needs so there were a lot of "commercial off-the-shelf" items in that kit. They chose the Boker 155 as the knife that best suited their needs and designed a sheath for it that also suited SAC's needs.

 

Since they already had a sheath they liked, they stayed with the one drawn in 1950 when the knife Spec. was done in 1955. I have no idea why the knife Spec. was done in or if any knives were ever bought as a result of the Spec.  My copy of the Knife Spec. is stamped as being received by the W. R. Case & Sons Cutlery Company on July 14, 1958, so at least there was some interest in it then.

[Boy Howdy]

Thanks to all for your input. 

Just to clarify I am not suggesting any deceit on anyone's part.

I was just curious.

[RWW]

You are not the only curious one!

[Boy Howdy]

9 hours ago, RWW said:

You are not the only curious one!

Thank you 

[RWW]

I have not been able to find a lot on Weske knives online. I did find this quote in another post on this forum:

 

Frank T sure sums it up well in the article "Military Minutia" in the May 2013 Knife World:

 

"Weske “UDT” Knives

“Sanssouci” marked knives were made by Weske Cutlery Co. located in Sandusky, Ohio. Weske was in business from circa 1946 to 1952. The majority of knives I have seen were made from surplus military models purchased from Ka-Bar, Boker, Case, Queen and Camillus among others. The Mark 2-like models can be found with the ricassos removed or with the guards overstamped to eliminate the original manufacturer’s name. If the surplus blade was originally a blade-marked model, then the ricasso was removed by grinding the tang longer. You’ll note that on the knives without a ricasso the stacked leather grip is typically longer by this amount. On knives that were originally guard-marked, the guards were overstamped or new guards were made with the Sanssouci marking applied in an oval. Pommels were installed and pinned in place with a short length of pin stock or the tangs were peened to hold them in place, depending on the type of pommel used. Sometimes both methods were used on one knife. Weske was located next door to a chrome plating shop so many knives were plated as well. They did not have a hafting machine so grips were not grooved like the original military models were.

Weske produced the knives we collectors call, incorrectly I might add, UDT knives. They advertised knives with and without blood grooves, imagine that. Neither the Sanssouci marked nor the so called UDT knives were connected with the military in any way; they were sold as hunting knives by Weske Cutlery Co."

 

If Weske was not open in 1955 when the Mil Spec. was done for the knife, then it is unlikely it was made under that Spec. Could this be a similar situation to the "UDT" knife that Weske used surplus parts from Boker???

 

Again, I hope some of the knife people here can tell us more about this one.

[Charlie Flick]

10 hours ago, RWW said:

I have not been able to find a lot on Weske knives online. I did find this quote in another post on this forum:

Could this be a similar situation to the "UDT" knife that Weske used surplus parts from Boker???

 

 

Yes, I think that is precisely what we are looking at here.  Weske was in the business, at least in part, of buying leftover military surplus blades and parts from other cutlery companies and tried to eke out a profit by assembling them, marking them Weske and selling them at low prices.  We will probably never know for sure but my guess would be that the knife in question was originally a Boker and became a Weske.   No fraud, misrepresentation or bad intent by anyone is implied by me.  Just a different business model.

 

I read Frank T.'s article mentioned above when it came out and developed a bit of an interest in Weske blades.  I could not find out much but did end up with another Weske that in profile looks a lot like the Boker 155.  An old image of that blade which I had handy is seen below.

 

Regards,

Charlie

 

 

[Boy Howdy]

Lots of great info. Thanks Charlie.

So can we say a WESKE is to a Boker 155 as a "UDT KNIFE" is to a Navy MK 2?