I may end up selling my soul for a lot on auction right now - Elizabeth Gardner WASP auction

[Kurt Barickman]

1 hour ago, dmar836 said:

Oh no he didn't!

Kurt is that a playlist you made? So far so good!

Dave

Yup and it can really hurt.

[Dirk]

Noelle like others have said I am truly sorry you lost…but the collecting road is long and perhaps a better group awaits you. And as others pointed out the group may again resurface in a few years time or sooner…..after all, as a long time collector and friend Bob Gee once told me before he passed he wasn’t going “to take it with him”…and “it’s only stuff.” On the bright side, it sounds like you struck the spouse jackpot as your husband eagerly supports you dropping large sums on militaria. I think that is a win we all in this hobby wish for. 

[flyingtigerfan]

I’m going to second what an earlier commenter stated - I would not contact the seller and mention willing to pay 15k.   We’ve all lost auctions and experienced the hurt….. but interfering with a completed auction is another matter.  I’ve never dealt with this seller, sellers run the gambit from honest to awful.   If they did not ship the lot and knew someone was willing to pay thousands more…..   how many times has a seller reneged - I lost it, it broke - whatever - to get out of the sale and sell for more profit when offered.   There’s really no remedy for this so feeding the fire shouldn’t be considered.   Greed is greed, a friendly message that you’ll buy if this if the high bidder backs out is fine.   Anything more and I wouldn’t be happy if I was the deserving high bidder.    I feel for her losing the lot but cooler heads need to prevail, don’t jeopardize some innocent bidder’s win, they may have wanted as bad as you did. 
-Rob

[Wharfmaster]

Considering how much was bid on the group, the winner could be a family member for all we know.

 

 

W

[flyingtigerfan]

Could be a family member.   Nevertheless publishing a 15k offer right after the auction ends is more like a knee jerk reaction.  The winner even if a forum member and even if they would resell it - they don’t even possess the lot yet.   If the ebay seller followed / reads the end of this thread it could cause trouble for the winning bidder.   Just saying a little time should go by before a public offer.   I have nothing against Noelle, just my 2 cents - nuff said. 

[dmar836]

Indeed, and with the earlier comments, why would even one of our own members now admit he won the auction. How awkward he is made to feel for doing nothing but winning an auction. The WASP legacy might be every bit as "personal" to him and nobody can claim to be more deserving of a group than anyone else. I try not to over identify with any of my heroes.

Also, how many collectors have dropped a lot of cash on something only to see another, maybe better, prize a little later and then not be in the position to buy.

If you are able, while taking flight training. etc., start saving here and there for such toys. I have found once I have the ability to buy just about any of my "wants" I decide the retained ability to do so is more to my comfort level.

[Noelle]

There is an auction update at the end of this since it’s NOT a closed deal yet, and it turns out the error was on eBay’s end.  

 

Whoever wins should absolutely share. And post more pics, let us live vicariously as I said, though there’s a catch right now, and I’ll get to that in a moment.  At worst, a few days to lick some wounds, eat a bunch of ice cream and chicken piccata, and plan some frivolous purchase I wouldn’t have made otherwise since retail therapy is a thing, and it’ll be fine. It’s one thing to interfere with a closed auction (“screw the other guy, sell to me instead!”, which I get a feeling probably happens a lot with the easy suggestions of giving that a try, and a few times in the past couple years I’ve had winning bids, but then had had auctions cancelled and my money refunded due to “I can’t find the item”), and it’s another thing to offer to buy from the winner.  Sounds like a lot of people buy at least partly as investments with intentions of reselling later as it is.  

 

If my bid had gone through and I was still outbid, that would have sucked, but been easier to handle. I would have laughed it off as the “of course” end of a day that had been crappy already since it would have been a fair-and-square loss, but it turns out that it was an error on eBay’s end that tripped a 502 gateway error.  I contacted eBay this morning who said that the system flagged my account for “too many active auction,” though they confirmed that I had no other active auctions at all, nor any unpaid auctions, and that that was an error on their end.  So my shot was killed by eBay’s error.

 

However, I was already in contact with the seller and working on getting more info and working on gathering as much provenance as possible, and immediately sent the seller a message about if the high bidder doesn’t pay (something we all see happen with people who bid to be a part of bidding, the ghost when they end up winning), then I’m still interested. I talked to him a bit ago and know now that eBay is eBaying. i.e. when a seller doesn’t normally deal with things over $X, and suddenly they do, eBay can step in and request documentation, sourcing info, etc, before clearing a seller to ship, which is fair, but then still hold their funds even long after a buyer has confirmed receipt, which isn’t fair but that happens, and that’s happening here.  I don’t know who the buyer is, but do know that they’re not happy and the seller isn’t happy, and it can’t be closed yet.

 

So this one is still very much up in the air. 

 

Thought I’d share what I know, before I go get stuff to make chicken piccata.  Comfort food.

[rd12]

How is it up in the air? Are you saying eBay is considering taking your attempted 15k bid?
What could eBay possibly do that would change the outcome? 
Publicly posting cash offers and being in contact with the seller, it seems you are trying to get the grouping outside the auction. 
I don’t mean to sound negative or have an accusing tone, this auction and thread have been most enjoyable. 
 

Also, I lost an eBay auction yesterday for a 158th Infantry pin I really wanted, I tapped out at $133 and it sold for $135, so I lived vicariously through this auction LOL

[The Iron Brigade]

That's the gamble with eBay auctions, there might always be someone willing to bid more within the last few seconds. On any given day, anything can happen when it comes to auctions. 

[Bodes]

On 3/12/2023 at 8:45 PM, aerialbridge said:

 

Respectfully, as somebody else said  at least 46 states require the seller to collect sales tax for online purchases, regardless of how the buyer pays.  I've done local pickups and paid cash and I have to pay the seller the sales tax.  Ebay will take it out of their hide automatically when they assess their fees,  so the seller is going to get stuck paying the sales tax if they're slack enough not to collect it from the buyer. 

 

I'm glad I don't have a horse in this race, the suspense would be killin me!   It's way too quiet, that the needle hasn't moved from 7 grand all day.   The high rollers be keepin their powder dry, methinks. 

Collecting sales tax is really more of a "cost-effective" means of doing business than a requirement.....Around 2014 eBay started sending out 1099 tax forms to those (sellers) making a determinate amount of money....Not long after eBay joined with Paypal and made it mandatory for transactions to only be paid electronically with Paypal.....The eBay-Paypal alliance had begun.....At the time Paypal was getting paid 4% per transaction......Since most state sales taxes are based on a higher percentage and the government was coming to the realization that potential revenue was being lost, somebody came up with the idea of adding sales tax to Paypal transactions......It gives them an opportunity to milk more revenue from buyers with perhaps the intent of offsetting operating costs up to and including taxes....

 

The seller of this fine grouping will have an $11K tax hit on their 1099 form from eBay/Paypal.....Bodes

[rd12]

The Supreme Court ruled ( South Dakota v. Wayfair) in 2018 that states can pursue sales tax revenue on sellers even if they do not have a physical presence in said state, for goods sold to residents. Initially some states relied on self reporting, but now they have shifted to placing the collection burden on the platform, in this case eBay.  This is why we pay sales tax on eBay now. 
 

And you are correct, for 2023 total sales on eBay in excess of $600 will generate a form 1099-K. 
This is an IRS requirement, not something eBay came up with.  
 

eBay and PayPay sort of split up in 2015, but severed all ties in 2021 and are no longer affiliated. 

[Noelle]

2 hours ago, rd12 said:

How is it up in the air? Are you saying eBay is considering taking your attempted 15k bid?
What could eBay possibly do that would change the outcome? 
Publicly posting cash offers and being in contact with the seller, it seems you are trying to get the grouping outside the auction. 
I don’t mean to sound negative or have an accusing tone, this auction and thread have been most enjoyable. 
 

Also, I lost an eBay auction yesterday for a 158th Infantry pin I really wanted, I tapped out at $133 and it sold for $135, so I lived vicariously through this auction LOL

 

Up in the air in that ebay wants to do ore verification of it and that means the seller can’t ship yet, and when you’re the buyer and get told it’s pending verification, and the seller gets told that the funds will be held for potentially more than a month after the buyer confirms receipt, etc., a completely legitimate (ebay glitches aside…that’s what’s got me so upset) sale can start to fall apart. Buyer can get impatient and move on, seller can get concerned about so much money being held for who knows how long even after the buyer confirm getting what they paid for, etc.  That’s what’s has it in the air.

 

I wasn’t the only one in contact with the seller for more info, and my message right after was to say I’m interested if the buyer backs out.  My posted offer was made here in case the winner is here and would be interested in quick profit.  It sounds, both from public posts and messages I’ve received privately, that a good number of people who have an interest in these things are also very investment-minded, seeing these things as financial investments and being concerned about if prices go high enough that they’d have to sell at a loss later.  That, actually, is what gave me hope at having a chance.  If buying as an investment, it makes total sense to think about what it would be resold for later.  If buying for personal reasons and reselling isn’t a consideration (I’ve received absurdly high offers on a particular costume necklace I have, but it’s sentimental, and so I’ve passed on insane offers…an offer of $8k for this, and several more north of $5k:  https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/titanic-movie-peterman-vintage-1721152518…no price on sentimental value), then potential resale value is less likely to be a concern.  So it’s not beyond reason that a winner could be here and interested in quick profit.

 

And OUCH on that loss.  Do you ever wonder if $135 was their highest, and so a high of $140 would have won?  They it was close.  More painful than losing and having someone’s high bid be very high.  My high bid on the lozenge wings I do have was more than twice what I ended up winning them for.  My gut said go for it.  Usually I’m content to watch auctions like watching a race, egging it on. :D I’ve watched other WASP auctions, but then there’s that one that’s personal, and that’s when it gets ya.

 

If your high bid was so close to the top, and it’s something not extremely rare or there wasn’t some element making it particularly one of a kind to you, then I bet you’ll get one before too much longer, and I hope you’ll post when you do because I wanna get to be happy for you when you do.

[Noelle]

1 hour ago, Bodes said:

Collecting sales tax is really more of a "cost-effective" means of doing business than a requirement.....Around 2014 eBay started sending out 1099 tax forms to those (sellers) making a determinate amount of money....Not long after eBay joined with Paypal and made it mandatory for transactions to only be paid electronically with Paypal.....The eBay-Paypal alliance had begun.....At the time Paypal was getting paid 4% per transaction......Since most state sales taxes are based on a higher percentage and the government was coming to the realization that potential revenue was being lost, somebody came up with the idea of adding sales tax to Paypal transactions......It gives them an opportunity to milk more revenue from buyers with perhaps the intent of offsetting operating costs up to and including taxes....

 

The seller of this fine grouping will have an $11K tax hit on their 1099 form from eBay/Paypal.....Bodes

 

I was working in email/internet antifraud when that ebay/paypal helliance began, and it resulted in a massive uptick in fraud.  That was before 2014, and now I’m wondering what the legality is of Paypal treating sales tax like its own revenue when charging fees.  Collecting sales tax isn’t a service for the buyer or seller, but rather a third party.

 

I now live in a city at a border line where we’ve got no income tax on this side (high sales tax though, which is fine since we actually get stuff for it), and on the other, no sales tax (but the highest effective income tax rate by far and it’s anyone’s guess where it all goes since that place is falling apart).  You can bet nearly everyone here knows at least one or two people on the other side that they can have stuff shipped to.  I generally don’t mind sales tax though, but definitely still understand the sting, especially when it can add up.  8.6% for me right now.

 

I thought about the eBay and PayPal fees on this lot, but not the 1099 tax stuff.  Extra ouch.

 

Does anyone know why auction houses and a buyers’ premium instead of charging the sellers?  And is that in addition to or in lieu of sales tax?

[pfrost]

I think we have fully explored the collecting/historical aspects of this thread. So I’m closing it now