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I may end up selling my soul for a lot on auction right now - Elizabeth Gardner WASP auction


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17 minutes ago, aerialbridge said:

Sales tax for online purchases goes by where the BUYER lives, Gazoo.   Just like other taxes, we in Cali get hit the worst.    I miss the old e-buying days.    As for when family comes a calling, which has been covered a whole lot on many threads here, it does not make me any never mind,  unless my purchase is included in a certified copy of a police report that predates the date of my purchase.   A "family member" has no superior legal right to any personal property any more than anyone else.   And the "family" victim of theft of personal property has no greater rights against a "bona fide purchaser for value" than any other theft victim.  Bona fide means "good faith", e.g., you paid fair value for the thing and you had no knowledge it was stolen.   

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bona_fide_purchaser

 

Everyone's got a closet, safe or secure storage, and free choice to keep your goodies secreted away there, or bring out and brag or just share your cool stuff with others.   I don't think everyone that's generous enough to share their time and collections is doing it to show off.   Some yeah,  many no.  The day everyone decides to be a closet collector, other than buying and selling, there won't be much action around here. 

 

I think you're pretty much on the money here. As nice as it is for the family to get their stuff back often times they fall into the hands of collectors because no one cared enough to hold on to them at that time. My opinion has always been that if a family member asked me about one of my ID'd items giving it back would have to involve some sot of compensation at or a bit under fair market value for the item. I would think most family members who genuinely wanted their relatives military items back as a memento would be fine with that. I know personally that if I was able to find anything ID'd to my grandfather or great uncles I would be willing to be above and beyond market value.

 

As for the sharing of collections, I think as you said it comes down to personal preference. I know for me personally I love sharing my collection, especially when I get the chance to post about a piece I've researched. I think in part because I enjoy seeing other's items/collections and sharing my own collection is, hopefully, a way of reciprocating that enjoyment. Though for those collectors who are a bit more top dollar than I, I can understand the hesitation to post some of their more rare/expensive items.

 

Back to the grouping at hand, it's way outside of what I collect but it looks absolutely fantastic. I'm hopeful that someone here is able to get it and willing to share it. Best of luck to anyone who's throwing their hat in the ring on this one, it'll be fun to watch from the sideline as the clock ticks down!

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It like the Kentucky Derby the build up takes all day
but the race only runs two minutes.
In the ebay arena its only 5 seconds
 

I normally bid when it hits 8 sec to go

 

 

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Alan Schaefer

Trust me, it will go higher. This is a very rare grouping, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. (And no, I did not bid on it, lol.)

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Alan Schaefer

It jumped $2,526.00 in the last 10 seconds. I'm not surprised.

 

Congratulations to the winning bidder on acquiring a spectacular grouping!

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My husband had the cash set aside for this auction, I went to bid, and the internet froze, and I’m so upset I’m in tears.  If anyone here won it, I’ll pay the $15k we were going to bid.

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Alan Schaefer
22 minutes ago, Noelle said:

My husband had the cash set aside for this auction, I went to bid, and the internet froze, and I’m so upset I’m in tears.  If anyone here won it, I’ll pay the $15k we were going to bid.

 

It's too bad you didn't use an auction sniping service. I always use and trust the snipe service to place my bid if I really want something badly.

 

Yes, things can happen with your local internet service provider going down, or locking up. It's a shame you didn't use auctionsniper.com to place your bid for you a few seconds before the auction closed. I've used them literally hundreds of times over many years with excellent results. The only time I loose, lol, is if I don't want to pay enough for an item, lol.

 

Last October on eBay I lost out on a rare US WW1 Medical Officer Belt Pill Box container with the pill tubes labeled and the holder for the tubes. It was much nicer than the set I have, because the tubes were all labeled and it had the contents in them. A relatively inexpensive item, but eBay strangely locked up with the "buy-it-now" button and it absolutely would not let me place the purchase price "buy-it-now" on the item. I wrote the seller, and she unfortunately and very stupidly ended the auction and then re-listed it without me being aware of her doing this and I missed out on it. I was very p.o.'d, needless to say. Whoever the lucky dog was who bought it, got it for a real "steal" at less than $80 if I remember correctly. I should have tried another web browser to see if that would have worked in order to do the "buy-it-now" on it.

 

So yes, stuff happens. One never knows with the internet connection.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Alan Schaefer said:

 

It's too bad you didn't use an auction sniping service. I always use and trust the snipe service to place my bid if I really want something badly.

 

Yes, things can happen with your local internet service provider going down, or locking up. It's a shame you didn't use auctionsniper.com to place your bid for you a few seconds before the auction closed. I've used them literally hundreds of times over many years with excellent results. The only time I loose, lol, is if I don't want to pay enough for an item, lol.

 

Last October on eBay I lost out on a rare US WW1 Medical Officer Belt Pill Box container with the pill tubes labeled and the holder for the tubes this past fall. A relatively inexpensive item, but eBay strangely locked up with the "buy-it-now" button and it absolutely would not let me place the purchase price "buy-it-now" on the item. I wrote the seller, and she unfortunately and very stupidly ended the auction and then re-listed it without me being aware of her doing this and I missed out on it. I was very p.o.'d, needless to say.

 

So yes, stuff happens. One never knows with the internet connection.

 

 

 

I used to use a sniping service that started sporadically not working, and so I started going manually.

 

I’m literally sick to my stomach.  This isn’t mere cool-collection stuff to me.  It’s deeply personal. They’re why I never gave up on my dream even when those who should have been in my corner told me I was wrong because math and science and flying were for boys. They were the encouragement I needed.  So my offer stands.

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Alan Schaefer
8 minutes ago, Noelle said:

 

I used to use a sniping service that started sporadically not working, and so I started going manually.

 

I’m literally sick to my stomach.  This isn’t mere cool-collection stuff to me.  It’s deeply personal. They’re why I never gave up on my dream even when those who should have been in my corner told me I was wrong because math and science and flying were for boys. They were the encouragement I needed.  So my offer stands.

 

Out of the literally hundreds of bids I have placed using "auctionsniper.com", I had only One that didn't get placed due to a glitch in their system, some 8 or 10 years ago. I have never had a problem with them since that time.

 

Again, it's too bad you didn't use them.

 

Good luck trying to get this, because I'm guessing whoever won this is extremely happy they won the auction and probably no amount of money will cause them to sell it. Just my 2-cents worth on it. But you never know, it never hurts to try. You don't know if you don't try.

 

I understand your grief, and it's extremely unfortunate your internet service locked up and you couldn't place a bid on the grouping.

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aerialbridge

Ditto for understanding how bad you feel for a technical glitch that kept you from being a contender on this.  About this auction, both the winner and runner-up each only placed one bid  and they did it in the last 5 seconds.   $11, 726 and 11,626, respectively.   I figured that the winner would be bidding only once, and turns out to be the case for both the win and the place (2nd).   Had you been able to place your bid we know you would have at least been 2nd place.  If it's any consolation, we'll never know if your $15k bid would have been enough to bring it home for you, since slim chance we'll ever know what the winner's ceiling was.  It might well have been more than $15k and they're feeling pretty good about getting it at under $12 grand tonight.   Now we'll see if anybody here cops to being the winner.   I'll guess no, but maybe I'm wrong.  Congratulations would be in order and they might even post better pix than the auction.   The thing I'm still wondering is how far out of the wood this group was.   You've nothing to lose by writing the seller if you haven't already and letting them know your unfortunate story and that you've got $15k on the table for this.  Stranger things have happened, the winner could be a flake and not pay.   The coolest, most historical item (a cross over touching at least three well-established collectible areas including militaria) I've ever bought was this year, thanks be to God.   I was the "also ran" on a bid that I placed thinking the winning bid would be thousands more.   It weren't.  A day or two after the auction ended, I wrote the seller and said I was #2, which he could easily see, and to talk to me if the "winner" was a deadbeat.    Long story short, I ended up with it and it sure feels good.   That could happen to you or anybody.   Good luck.

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snake36bravo

You are right about bidders not paying. Someone may have run this up with no intention of paying just for the satisifcation of winning. You should contact the seller, let them know your standing offer if the deal falls through, and hope for the best.

 

 

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rathbonemuseum.com

@NoelleI don't have a lot of wisdom to offer you at this point that is going to feel any good or take the sting away. Only time and finding some other treasures will solve that. I am sorry you missed on this particular lot. But for some reason, the collecting gods have other plans. There is more WASP material out there. You will have other shots at it. And to add to what others have said, I use an auction sniper everytime.

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11 hours ago, Noelle said:

 

I used to use a sniping service that started sporadically not working, and so I started going manually.

 

I’m literally sick to my stomach.  This isn’t mere cool-collection stuff to me.  It’s deeply personal. They’re why I never gave up on my dream even when those who should have been in my corner told me I was wrong because math and science and flying were for boys. They were the encouragement I needed.  So my offer stands.

No harm in contacting the seller about this item, they may even be willing to send the winner your offer
or contact info. Who knows they may have picked this up for resale ?

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10 minutes ago, GAZOO said:

No harm in contacting the seller about this item, they may even be willing to send the winner your offer
or contact info. Who knows they may have picked this up for resale ?

 

Yea, can't hurt to try. It's possible the winning bidder flakes or they are willing to let it go to make a quick buck. As aerialbridge pointed out though, we have no way of knowing where the winning bidder was willing to take this to, only where the 2nd bidder tapped out. It's an unfortunate situation for Noelle and I feel for her, but I'm sure in time another great WASP grouping will show up. 

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tdogchristy90

I've been following this thread like most and want to say my condolences. My heart definitely breaks for you as I know exactly how you feel. I could tell your passion for it by your comments in the thread. So, like most, I'm sorry. The sting always hurts but I've learned that something else always comes up. As others have said, it never hurts to reach out. I have reached out multiple times over the years using a motto, "It never hurts to ask, all they can do is say no." Again, sorry. Keep your chin up. 

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manayunkman

 

This sort of thing has happened to us all a multitude of times.

 

I hate when it happens but let go when it does.

 

We just keep our ears to the ground and our eyes peeled for the next opportunity.

 

The collecting gods are not worthy, only the one who created them is.

 

So we keep looking, we keep asking and we keep finding.

 

And don’t wait until the last minute to bid because eBay is known for last minute bidding horror stories.

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I'll say it. There might have been a guardian angel in this. What we passionately desire isn't automatically what is best for us or our families.

The thing you will learn about collecting is that when you land a nice grouping, sure you appreciate it, but then before long you start focusing on the next one out there. Or another season in life comes and an updated kitchen sounds pretty good too.

Dave

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Also the story is not over. No actual confirmation on authenticity of all the items, I believe it was real
But who knows could of been put together by a Family member or collector with good period correct
items or even good copy for filler ???

 Nothing worse to find out years later its put together,

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The Iron Brigade

Sometimes things happen for a reason. Hopefully a better WASP grouping will come your way in the future. I wish you the best of luck.

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sorry about that.  But on the other hand, the best bit of advice I ever got is to be patient when it comes to collecting.  I would not be shocked if you see a few more groupings come to auction in hopes of catching lightening in the bottle again.  I know a fair number of collectors/dealers will be looking at the prices that this grouping brought and may be thinking, "you know, I made a 1000$ investment 10 years ago, maybe now is time to cash it in for $15,000!".  I saw a similar pattern happen when Duncan Campbell's collection came up for auction.  A fair amount of big money was dropped on wings that (or so I thought at the time) were overpriced. Then because of those prices, even more wings started to show up in the market.  For a couple of years, there were a number of nice collections and individual wings that were showing up on a more or less regular basis. 

Also, at the end of the day, a number of those wings sold in Duncan's auction went through multiple hands before becoming available again. For example, I watched one of the military bomber wings work its way from Duncan's collection and via a number of collectors, and back again.  I think the Putman/Green collection that has its own thread is a perfect case in point.

 

So, be patient, who knows, you may get a call from someone who says "I got a similar grouping, and I wanna sell it!".

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I will preface this by saying I am truly sorry you did not get the opportunity to bid on this group.  This was a special one for many reasons. 
 

That being said, reconsider sending the seller your offer to pass along to the buyer.  What happens if the seller sees your offer and  decides to sell it to you out from under the winning bidder? I doubt any of us would feel to swell if it happened to us and I would wager you would not either had you won the auction and something similar occurred.

 

Which brings me to my second point.  We are all passionate about this hobby and many are also passionate about the history behind the hobby.  Try not to allow emotion to bleed over into that passion.  Earlier on in this thread you were discussing putting other financial obligations on hold to compete for this group.  Perhaps the financial Gods were smiling upon you when the collecting Gods were not.  I would wager while WASP groups are expensive and rare there are and will be others that come along and can allow you to pay homage to these trailblazing women. 
 

Third, it distresses me when it’s presupposed who is the best caretaker for these items.  Why couldn’t I be the best caretaker of Ms Gardner’s items given that I am from the same town and went to the same high school? Why not the dedicated WASP historian, the AAF collector, or just the person with the available funds?  Hopefully it will be well cared for in the meantime and someday down the road someone else will get the special opportunity of curating her military history.

 

Kyle

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