I may end up selling my soul for a lot on auction right now - Elizabeth Gardner WASP auction

[Noelle]

And I know someone here’s going to bid more than I ever could since I’m out of my financial league in the best of times, and I just finished prepaying for an upcoming surgery, but I’d regret not trying. My dream is for sale right now, and it’s breaking my heart.  Hopefully whoever wins will share loads of pics to let me live vicariously!

[manayunkman]

Surgery is highly overrated. LOL

[doinworkinvans]

So what is for sale? I see no link or pictures

[Salvage Sailor]

Tick, tock, tick, tock, she's waiting for the auction to end so she does not 'tip her hand', eh?

 

[dmar836]

Pretty easy to find

[stratasfan]

Guessing . . .  Looks like a killer grouping, from what I've seen of WASP stuff! Oh, I bet it is the one I found earlier myself. :) Just browsing on my part, though! Bet it is this:

 

 

Been reading on her for the past couple of hours on and off now . . . super interesting!

[warguy]

Yep found it two minutes after her post this morning. Jaw dropping group. From what she said I never had the impression she was trying to keep anything from anyone. Some folks have a hard time bringing eBay photos over. 

[stratasfan]

5 minutes ago, warguy said:

Yep found it two minutes after her post this morning. Jaw dropping group. From what she said I never had the impression she was trying to keep anything from anyone. Some folks have a hard time bringing eBay photos over. 

 

Oh, yes . . . I assume the same thing! that's not going to stay hidden, anyway. :) And you are correct . . . a lot of people usually can't bring the eBay pics over. It is an amazing group! I posted it a few hours ago in the board before reading this thread! Until I started looking the name up, I didn't realise HOW amazing it is! :) 

[manayunkman]

If Noelle hadn’t mentioned it I wouldn’t know.

 

That said it’s not in my wheelhouse at this moment but I am very attracted to these things.

 

Good luck to all in this acquisition.

[warguy]

I agree, her post made me go lookin’ for it. Bids over $4000 already on the first day of the listing. Just goes to show nice stuff gets a lot of attention still. 

[manayunkman]

Just now, warguy said:

I agree, her post made me go lookin’ for it. Bids over $4000 already on the first day of the listing. Just goes to show nice stuff gets a lot of attention still. 

I’m sure it will go much higher.

[The Iron Brigade]

Current bid is $5002.00. Way to early in the auction for this kind of stupid bidding. 

[manayunkman]

16 minutes ago, The Iron Brigade said:

Current bid is $5002.00. Way to early in the auction for this kind of stupid bidding. 

What are you saying?

 

Its already overpriced?

 

Seems quite normal to me for something that will probably bring way more.

[The Iron Brigade]

5 minutes ago, manayunkman said:

What are you saying?

 

Its already overpriced?

 

Seems quite normal to me for something that will probably bring way more.

Only bids in the last few seconds matter. I expect this grouping to fetch considerably more than the current high bid. 

[stratasfan]

Anyone guessing what range it will likely end at? I'm watching! 

[dmar836]

At this rate I shutter to think!

It's really great. I didn't look to close when I found it earlier today but I hope there aren't any dicey wings or other things thrown in to augment this. If it's all truly original then wow!

Dave

[GAZOO]

I never bid early. 99% of the time someone will chip away at it until they are high bidder ?
Why show my hand early ? Only bid what I am willing to pay in the last few seconds, This leaves no time
for me to second guess myself and over pay in the heat of the moment. Best to keep my Bid hidden until
its show time
 

[doinworkinvans]

Good grief, this is nuts!! Will this go over 10k??? I can think of another forum member Prb in on this as well. 

[manayunkman]

1 hour ago, GAZOO said:

I never bid early. 99% of the time someone will chip away at it until they are high bidder ?
Why show my hand early ? Only bid what I am willing to pay in the last few seconds, This leaves no time
for me to second guess myself and over pay in the heat of the moment. Best to keep my Bid hidden until
its show time
 

 

I bid early because I always fall asleep and miss auction ends.

 

 I feel this will do over $10,000 easily.

 

Another Wasp group did over $20,000. 

[Noelle]

I figured this would have been all over here already.  

 

When I see things go so high so early (it was at $250 when I posted), I start to worry about the probability that shilling/padding is happening.  Have a friend or someone place higher and higher bids to get legitimate bidders to bid higher and higher than they otherwise might.  Then the high bidding friend conveniently doesn’t pay unless someone was able to be tempted to bid even higher.  Artificial price inflation. 

 

I’m pretty sure most serious bidders of higher-dollar things know to bid in the last couple minutes.  I have a very strong feeling this auction will close high, then end up relisted in the next few weeks.  I’ve watched this happen with pins, records, etc.  This is VERY early for an auction of any sort of item to be over halfway to five figures already.  

 

I asked the seller how they came by these things, and got a two word reply: “estate sale”

 

So while they look to be real, I’m still concerned about a few things.  

[Noelle]

6 hours ago, The Iron Brigade said:

Current bid is $5002.00. Way to early in the auction for this kind of stupid bidding. 

Which is why I’m concerned about the possibility, if not probability, of shilling happening.  May not be stupid bidding in the end.  May not be actual bidding at all.  Look at how many times pins and other WASP things have been listed in just the past year by some sellers we know to be dubious, the bidding gets oddly high early on, ends higher than they should (for things that are fake, especially), and then the high bigger conveniently doesn’t pay.  Item gets relisted.  Bidders who see that who were already kicking themselves for not cashing out their kids’ college funds, yet are glad they didn’t, see the second chance, and do it.

 

Shilling tempts people to obsess and then do things they otherwise wouldn’t to try to get more money and bid emotionally, literally like a drug.  Honestly, I’d hock my car and bid $7k, but if it were to hit $7k, say, tomorrow, then that could be tempting to try to do more without thinking it through.  The way shilling affects the brain is strong enough that it’s an outright felony.  So it’s not people being weak.  

 

Now that I think about it, I came to the conclusion that it’s probably all real because I do think at least the lozenge pin is real, and probably most of it is real, but what are the odds it’s all real and all Elizabeth’s?  That’s the biggest draw, right?  Provenance?  But the seller only said two words…”estate sale”…when I asked how they came into possession of these things (and not even a time frame for the sale, nothing).  According to TWU, there was 629 lozenge pins made, and we know there were some wash-outs, and that the pins made for them were sold to other WASPs.  Libby was 43-6, and if that pin’s good too…let’s say she bought a second lozenge pin later.  That would be a presumption.  And multiple sets of the other things?

 

The more I think about it, the more questions I have, especially given the seller’s two-word response and lack of other info in the listing, and no returns. If you get it, and some of it is fake, and there are no returns…is there a case when the seller doesn’t say anywhere it was Libby’s, nor even claims authenticity? The title mentions a license, the listing says only a wallet, and the last pic shows a document that’s not visible anywhere else in the pictures, underneath the license wallet (it’s a medical cert…FAA still mandates pilots have medical certs with their licenses and government ID on them at all times to fly), and I’m wondering why this is, and and how hard would it be to assemble a convincing lot given a bit of patience, and then post some pics, not state a name, not claim authenticity, and cash in?

 

I’m talking through my thoughts here and posting them so that, if I’m off, hopefully someone will set me straight: I own some of these pins.  Not class-specific, but some of the others.  I paid just $10 for the eagle pin from a dealer when I was in Sweetwater last October.  The propeller pins are maybe $20 each (I’ve paid $65 total and have three of them for that).  There’s a WASP lapel pin up for $350, and it’s been available for months.  The bracelet, being something not officially issued as far as I’m aware, wouldn’t be hard to forge.  I know that as a result of the silver-casting classes I’m taking right now (final week is this week, and learning how difficult it would be and what to look for with casting versus stamping is 100% of why I’m taking these classes).  I think that, realistically, anyone with a legit class-specific pin and legit lozenge pin, the rarest items clearly shown, could acquire the other not-rare pins, including the Piper and Cub pins, and put together a convincing lot and cash in.

 

I think I just talked myself out of hocking my car.  I wanted these because I like to use real things like this when talking to kids, but I now have doubt that it’s all Libby’s (the seller really couldn’t have said anything more, or even mentioned er name? probable deniability in not mentioning her name?, and I still suspect shilling given how high it is in the first 24 hours.  If I may be wrong, someone please tell me.  I know that, at the end of the day, probably most of you could smoke me in the bidding department, but if it’s likely to be legit rather than shilling, I’d feel better at least making a genuine attempt at acquiring it. If there’s a decent chance it’s not hers and/or that there may be shilling, then I’d feel better not bidding.

[manayunkman]

I contacted the seller and they offered a 100% money back guarantee that the group is original.

[stratasfan]

Not addressing the authenticity of the items or group at all. Not my area, so can't really get into that. However . . . we've been active selling on eBay since 2000 and watched many high-end auctions and still know a lot of bidders who go for higher-end lots. I wouldn't jump to shilling. There are multiple strategies for bidding, and not all are the sniper. Actually, for 2 years - I can't stand sniper bidding. Bidding in the last seconds. It is why we no longer bid on any auction. If it doesn't have a fixed price - we pass it right  by. However, many serious bidders will put a bid in early so that they get reminders when it gets closer to the end. Also, a lot of people are going to do smaller bids early on and hope that the auction isn't seen by many others (hoping to get a deal). So, I wouldn't jump to shilling right off the bat. Personally, I'd follow those other points you were thinking of, as I wondered why they wouldn't put a name in (I had to read the dog tag) and they do have lousy pics. But, it could also be someone who got it, found out it is "something" and doesn't get into the nitty-gritty. Lousy pics on sales is a real thing now in the mobile world. Mobile devices have really ruined informative listings. I noticed they did show the back of a Josten wing . . . wonder if any wing collectors have thoughts on it?

[Steve D.]

I've made 10 of the bids on this grouping and as of 10:00 am on Tuesday morning, I'm the high bid. So... it's not shilling. As a somewhat experienced WASP collector,

the WASP Class wings, Josten wings, fifi pins, WASP collar insignia, and eagle all look good to me. If you research her history, the piper items and caterpiller pin were

earned by her after her WASP service.  

 

PS: For any serious WASP collectors who may be reading this, I'm looking for the summer issue dress jacket and skirt. I have a complete winter issue dress uniform for trade,

or will pay cash.

[dmar836]

That would be great if you could get it, Steve.

Caterpillar wings after WASP service? Was she a military flier later?

Dave