Anybody know how to keep a picture from falling apart?

[Ben@HI]

Part of a grouping I was thinking about selling. It's just turning to dust. Not sure why, I have had it stored in a sealed pelican box for over 2 years. It wasn't in the best shape before but it's falling apart now. Any idea how to stop it?

[manayunkman]

Laminate it.

 

Most collectors don’t like that but I would rather have a laminated picture than no picture at all.

[daskrieg]

Put it in a protective sleeve or put in a tightly sealed frame. Do not laminate it as suggested. 

[manayunkman]

11 minutes ago, daskrieg said:

Put it in a protective sleeve or put in a tightly sealed frame. Do not laminate it as suggested. 

I was under the impression that it is already beyond that.

 

 

[Bluehawk]

8 hours ago, Ben@HI said:

Part of a grouping I was thinking about selling. It's just turning to dust. Not sure why, I have had it stored in a sealed pelican box for over 2 years. It wasn't in the best shape before but it's falling apart now. Any idea how to stop it?

If it's a very important picture to you, then a qualified paper conservator would probably be able to neutralize whatever is happening to it. Then encapsulate in some manner, a sleeve or the like, with a neutral pH stiffener backing for support.

[stratasfan]

I'd get a high-res scan of it while it is still visible, that's for sure. 

 

An idea . . . a pelican box is plastic, I believe? Certain substances react to being kept confined in plastic enclosures, so it could be that whatever that picture was made with/developed on or with doesn't react well to being sealed in plastic. Plastic outgases, as well as the picture would be outgassing if in contact with certain substances. So, it could have been a bad blend, which you wouldn't really have  a way of knowing.  

[Ben@HI]

1 hour ago, stratasfan said:

I'd get a high-res scan of it while it is still visible, that's for sure. 

 

An idea . . . a pelican box is plastic, I believe? Certain substances react to being kept confined in plastic enclosures, so it could be that whatever that picture was made with/developed on or with doesn't react well to being sealed in plastic. Plastic outgases, as well as the picture would be outgassing if in contact with certain substances. So, it could have been a bad blend, which you wouldn't really have  a way of knowing.  

Yes, plastic box and I had it in a plastic sleeve inside a plastic bubble lined envelope. I didn't know plastic could hurt photos. This stinks. Scanning it sounds good and laminating it afterwards. First thing is first, all the photos are coming out of that box today. Thank you 

[atb]

Encapsulation is not laminating. Do not laminate it.

[GAZOO]

Maybe a FLOAT FRAME you know the type that
has TWO pains of glass that you place the photo between and then its held together tight by the glass
and the frame ?

also a Top Loader Archival safe type sports card holder to keep it from being touched or bent
to protect it until you can get it stabilized,

[Bluehawk]

"This stinks."

 

> Serious question:

Does it actually "stink" ?

 

If so, that may well tell a conservator what kind of chemical reactions have been going on for two years. Yes, some, not all, plastics do outgas obnoxious stuff... including food packaging (believe it or not).

[stratasfan]

46 minutes ago, Bluehawk said:

"This stinks."

 

> Serious question:

Does it actually "stink" ?

 

If so, that may well tell a conservator what kind of chemical reactions have been going on for two years. Yes, some, not all, plastics do outgas obnoxious stuff... including food packaging (believe it or not).

 

You said it . . . our grocery store sells fresh mozzarella cheese, and sometimes Sis and I splurge and get some as we like it on sandwiches. They changed from heat-sealed plastic to plastic wrap and the plastic wrap makes the entire cheese taste like flowery perfume! 

 

We experienced the same thing with some items stored in plastic bins. Actually, Sis and I had a set of dolls and we stored them for a few years in a really nice plastic bin. Took them back out and opened them up, and you about died from the chemical smell! The outgassing of both just didn't mesh and the dolls actually went completely sticky and were breaking down. 

 

I do know that some photograph materials (and this has to do with everything making the picture and developing, I don't know enough about picture developing to know details) need some air and not plastic. I'd scan it and then I'd put it in a top-loading archival sleeve, with a piece of archival (non-acid) paper behind it. That way it would have support and air.  But a good scan would be the best thing, as you can always re-print! And a nice re-print is better than a pile of dust original. 

 

Actually, we got some pics from a soldier in WWII (snapshots) that had been stored (probably since his death in WWII) in a little cardboard box with two rolled negatives. Whatever was in the pictures and negs didn't go well, and the pictures look filthy. But it is actually the image on them turning to dust and everytime you handle them, some flakes off and leaves a white patch. We scanned them and that way they can be kept, but there is nothing to do about the pics themselves. 

[GAZOO]

Here is a NICE TUTORIAL on safe photo storage from the
The Library of Congress > Preservation > Collections Care > Photographs

[Bluehawk]

"... Whatever was in the pictures and negs didn't go well"

 

> It could have been nitrates in the negatives that caused it. Old film from that era can be so toxic, even flammable/explosive actually, that some museums have had to segregate it in specially built cold storage. It has a distinct odor, which is why I asked about the smell.

[Airborne-Hunter]

Your pelican case is more than likely lined in polyurethane foam. This foam, as with most petroleum products off gasses. Specifically, polyurethane foam is acidic and becomes more acidic as it breaks down. Effectively, your photo was exposed to acidic compounds and broke down. Some modern foams aren't as bad, but foams from the mid 90s and before are very bad, especially if they have been exposed to heat. 

 

 

Here is a good article
https://www.jstor.org/stable/20619421