Camillus US Navy Knife

[p.fitzy]

Hi ,

Thank you for accepting me onto your great site.

I have just bought a Camillus MK2 U.S.Navy knife with a Nord sheath from a charity / op shop here in Australia.

Tried searching and cannot find one with the same guard.

No markings on the Parkerized blade.

The guard is marked CAMILLUS N.Y  U.S.N MK2

The sheath is marked NORD -8114 B.M. Co 1/5 VP  U.S.N MK2.

Because of the angle that the guard has been bent to, the knife does not fully go into the sheath.

Can anyone tell me if the knife or guard have been altered.

Also , I would like to know the age of them if possible.

Any help would be really appreciated.

Thanks

Paul

[mikedon]

It is a WWII knife and sheath. I believe the guard has been altered. 

[byf41]

Hi Paul . You are correct the guard was bent at some point In Its life . Genuine WWII era MKII probably made In 1944 .   

[p.fitzy]

Thank you both Mikedon & Byf41.Just found that someone has just sold one exactly the same on ebay.The knife does feel good in the hand with the thumb pressing on the bent guard,maybe that's why it was done.

I will have to look into seeing if it can be safely bent back.

Thanks again,Paul.

[sundance]

It's a beauty. I certainly wouldn't mess with the cross guard.... but it's not my knife.

[p.fitzy]

28 minutes ago, sundance said:

It's a beauty. I certainly wouldn't mess with the cross guard.... but it's not my knife.

I hear what you are saying but i do like things that are original.With saying that,it is its history though.                                                                                                                                          If i did decide to get the guard straightened i would try to find someone with greater experience than me.

[opseccc]

The guard looks like it was modified to look similar to the first pattern Fairbairn Sykes knives (attached pic).  Possibly a coincidence.  Should you decide to have it returned to original horizontal shape, let someone who has experience do it.  Either way, it is a great knife.

[SolWarrior]

Hello, Paul. Welcome to U.S.M.F.

 

It's understandable that you want a WWII military issue knife as it was originally issued but, if you decide to bend the guard to its original position, consider that once straightened the guard will very likely go loose and will wiggle from that point on. An adjustment or modification to stabilize the guard will be needed.

 

These adjustments could be as simple as wrapping wax dental floss tightly around the guard on the handle side, so that it slips in between the guard and plastic spacer and the tip of floss burnt with a lighter and pushed in so that it disappears entirely. In this case it appears it will need extra thick dental floss, however, this bend looks like it will leave still a much wider gap than that so, it will likely need a more aggressive modification that hopefully, once finshed will also not be noticeable.

 

Good luck, buddy.

[p.fitzy]

9 hours ago, opseccc said:

The guard looks like it was modified to look similar to the first pattern Fairbairn Sykes knives (attached pic).  Possibly a coincidence.  Should you decide to have it returned to original horizontal shape, let someone who has experience do it.  Either way, it is a great knife.

That certainly looks like what they were trying to copy.I will definitely get someone experienced to get it fixed,problem is finding someone here in Perth,Aust.Cheers,Paul.

[p.fitzy]

3 hours ago, SolWarrior said:

Hello, Paul. Welcome to U.S.M.F.

 

It's understandable that you want a WWII military issue knife as it was originally issued but, if you decide to bend the guard to its original position, consider that once straightened the guard will very likely go loose and will wiggle from that point on. An adjustment or modification to stabilize the guard will be needed.

 

These adjustments could be as simple as wrapping wax dental floss tightly around the guard on the handle side, so that it slips in between the guard and plastic spacer and the tip of floss burnt with a lighter and pushed in so that it disappears entirely. In this case it appears it will need extra thick dental floss, however, this bend looks like it will leave still a much wider gap than that so, it will likely need a more aggressive modification that hopefully, once finshed will also not be noticeable.

 

Good luck, buddy.

Thanks for the welcome,it is an amazing site.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      That is some great advice there,really appreciate it.

It would be interesting to find out if the modification would have been made whilst in service or years after.I suspect it would not have been allowed while serving.

Cheers,Paul.

[opseccc]

p.fitzy, you might try having an auto or motorcycle fabricator look at it and see what they might be able to do.  I have a friend who builds custom motorcycles and he can fabricate and modify things you would never think of.  Just let them know about some of the issues brought up here and what you would like done.  The worst they can say is they can not do anything.  

[p.fitzy]

8 minutes ago, opseccc said:

p.fitzy, you might try having an auto or motorcycle fabricator look at it and see what they might be able to do.  I have a friend who builds custom motorcycles and he can fabricate and modify things you would never think of.  Just let them know about some of the issues brought up here and what you would like done.  The worst they can say is they can not do anything.  

Will certainly look into that.Also just remembered seeing an ad for a guy who makes sheaths over here,maybe he can put me in touch with someone.You never know.

Cheers,Paul.

[sactroop]

IMHO,  The modified guard is part of the history of your specific knife.  having the guard modified back, and that really is what's happening, does involve some risk of failure.  The fact is that solders and sailors did personalize their equipment from time to time.

It is your decision when all is said and done.

 

[p.fitzy]

That'a a great knife.I hear what you are saying and the more i think about {especially if servicemen did modify them} i might leave it as it is. Also, like you say,it is its history.

As mention before,it does feel good in the hand like this with the thumb pressed against the bent guard.

Cheers,Paul.

[byf41]

I too vote for leave It be . After you straighten the guard , most likely the leather adjacent to It will be compressed and follow the bent guard shape . I dont think you will be happy . JMO

[SKIPH]

Hey Gang!  p.fitsy- nice knife, thanks for showing. Gonna put in my 2cents worth of opinion on the bent guard. I have seen lots of MK2s over the years, that were not bent for the comfort of the owner, but more from tossing the knife at trees. Those guards bend real easy when zinging against an oak tree.  I can't see bending a guard purposely that then cannot properly fit in the scabbard. Unless I'm mistaken the very first photo looks as though the pommel has been bent at an angle. Sadly another indicator of a bad toss.  Agree there are folks who might purposely bend the guard but suspect it's few and far between. We had MK2s in 5th, and 7th Special Forces groups, and I never saw anyone who bent the guards on purpose.   SKIP

[p.fitzy]

2 hours ago, byf41 said:

I too vote for leave It be . After you straighten the guard , most likely the leather adjacent to It will be compressed and follow the bent guard shape . I dont think you will be happy . JMO

Leaning very strongly in that direction.

[p.fitzy]

1 hour ago, SKIPH said:

Hey Gang!  p.fitsy- nice knife, thanks for showing. Gonna put in my 2cents worth of opinion on the bent guard. I have seen lots of MK2s over the years, that were not bent for the comfort of the owner, but more from tossing the knife at trees. Those guards bend real easy when zinging against an oak tree.  I can't see bending a guard purposely that then cannot properly fit in the scabbard. Unless I'm mistaken the very first photo looks as though the pommel has been bent at an angle. Sadly another indicator of a bad toss.  Agree there are folks who might purposely bend the guard but suspect it's few and far between. We had MK2s in 5th, and 7th Special Forces groups, and I never saw anyone who bent the guards on purpose.   SKIP

Hi Skip,thank you for your idea on how they could have got bent,never gave that as a possibility.The knife does look in amazing condition if it has been thrown at trees and such like.The bends do seem too precise as well and same as the 2 others i have now seen (1 on here & 1 on ebay),but who knows.

Thanks again,Paul

[Spike]

I'll add my vote for leaving it as is. I know a VN era SEAL that said he bent the guard on his knife and on the scabbard so that knife will come out of the sheath the way he needed it to be and would make sure that the knife would go back in the same way, especially by feel.

[WarBaby]

I'd also leave it as is - gives it a bit of personality. No, its not factory, someone somewhere had a little fun with a bench vise but its still a great looking piece.

[p.fitzy]

2 hours ago, WarBaby said:

I'd also leave it as is - gives it a bit of personality. No, its not factory, someone somewhere had a little fun with a bench vise but its still a great looking piece.

My mind is made up,i'll leave it as is.Unless a knifemaker comes out of the blue and says they can fix it with 100% guarantee of no damage. lol

[SolWarrior]

During WWII personalizing items  - knives in particular - was common. It happened so much that modifications became a pastime while waiting . Many were so finely detailed that the acts/artefacts were named Trench art. There's a good chance that it may have been done while in service. I think you've  made the right decision by keeping it as is. 👍

[p.fitzy]

18 hours ago, SolWarrior said:

During WWII personalizing items  - knives in particular - was common. It happened so much that modifications became a pastime while waiting . Many were so finely detailed that the acts/artefacts were named Trench art. There's a good chance that it may have been done while in service. I think you've  made the right decision by keeping it as is. 👍

Thank you for your input again,definitely will be leaving as is and hoping it was altered whilst in service.

Cheers,Paul.