Captured German Flag with Nine American Signatures. The item, the research, and the Veteran's stories

[Deuce]

A few weeks ago I was browsing a local gun show when I saw a table selling militaria. The display had the typical helmets, photos, bayonets, etc. I saw a crimson flag folded on the edge of the table and knew it was a wartime era Nazi flag. I struck up a conversation with the collections owner to discuss our interests. 

 

After speaking for about 30-45 minutes, I brought up the flag and asked if he had ever seen any signed by American veterans. The only ones with veteran signatures that I had seen previously were in museums. Funny enough, the flag had veteran signatures and had been signed by nine Americans prior to being brought home at the end of the war. It listed their first and last names (sometimes middle initial) and their hometowns. Other than that information, the owner did not have any additional details. 

 

I ended up purchasing the flag and started digging into each of the names on the list. I used a combination of state and federal archives, ancestry, fold3, and online obituaries. I have had pretty good luck tracing down information on the veterans but have been unable to trace them to a specific unit at this point in time. 

 

The only other Nazi flags that are in my collection were brought back by a family member who served in the 8th Infantry Division. I typically stay away from them due to their perception but when I am able to tie their story into American veterans, I make an exception. 

 

I will reply to this thread individually with the information on each individual who signed the flag. My hope is that you all are able to help me break through the wall that I have ran into and conclude their story.  

[1st Sgt CES]

 A really nice find---- I hope that you  can find the unit that they were in

[Deuce]

I will kick off the first reply with the Soldier that I have found the most information on at this point; Charlie Tucson. 

 

I decided to start my research with Charlie Tucson due to his hometown location. New Mexico has a relatively low population even at present times and it had a smaller population during World War 2. 

 

My initial research led me to look up Zuni, New Mexico. The Zuni Pueblo is located on a tributary of the Little Colorado River. It's people have lived in the same general area for over 3,000 years. In recent history, Zuni is known for its silversmiths. My initial searches for "Charles" Tucson led to dead ends. However, when I searched "Charlie" Tucson, I had better luck. I was able to find his draft card and his spouse's application for a military headstone.

 

The information contained in these two documents really helped me to get an understanding of when he enlisted, his rank, and when he was discharged.

 

The information that I gathered is as follows:

Name: Charlie Tucson

Birth: 1911

Service Number: 38 579 687

Rank: PFC

Enlistment Date: 17 March 1944

Discharge Date: 15 November 1945

Death: 28 August 1962

Buried: Zuni Cemetery, Zuni, New Mexico

 

The coolest piece of information on Charlie Tucson has to be his picture. I didn't have much hope for additional information as I know that the National Archives fire in the 1970s destroyed the majority of available records. Luckily, New Mexico maintained good records of their Native American service members. Charlie's picture was found after digging through Archives.com. 

 

One discrepancy that I am slowly working through regards what branch of service he was in. On his DD Form 1330, in block 9 it lists his unit as the 46th General Hospital. However, on his picture, his collar insignia is for WW2 era Armor Branch (I attached a picture of one for reference). I am unsure if he was wounded and sent to the 46th General Hospital or if he served there. 

 

I had the most luck with Charlie. I am hoping that he is the foot in the door for the remainder of the Soldiers. 

[Deuce]

6 minutes ago, 1st Sgt CES said:

 A really nice find---- I hope that you  can find the unit that they were in

I hope so too! I have found a decent amount of information on most of them. The difficult part will be tying them together at a location. My theories so far on all of them are that they were either in a squad together or they were all wounded and were in a hospital together. 

[USCapturephotos]

Nice find! Captured and signed flags are finally getting their due. I remember a time when flag collectors thought a flag was ruined when it was signed by the capturing GIs, but to me they were the most special and historical. I’ve owned six or seven over the years and still have two that are very special to me. 
Good luck with your research!

Paul

[Thaddeus]

5 minutes ago, USCapturephotos said:

Nice find! Captured and signed flags are finally getting their due. I remember a time when flag collectors thought a flag was ruined when it was signed by the capturing GIs, but to me they were the most special and historical. I’ve owned six or seven over the years and still have two that are very special to me. 
Good luck with your research!

Paul

Thanks Paul! I enjoy researching the Soldiers behind the item. I’m hoping I’ll be able to find the origin behind this one

[USCapturephotos]

Keep us posted as I would be interested to hear about what else you may learn.

Paul

[Deuce]

Next up is John W Thiem from North Braddock, Pennsylvania. Surprisingly, John also had a decent amount of information available and the NARA was able to return at least one document that was not destroyed by the fire. It didn’t help much in identifying his unit but it did give his rank.
 

The information that I’ve collected on him is listed below:

 

Name: John W(illiam) Thiem

Birth: 22 July 1919

Birthplace: North Braddock, PA

Service Number: 33 030 323

Rank: SGT

Enlistment Date: 17 January 1941

Discharge Date: 17 September 1945

Death: 2 June 1999 - Glendale, AZ 

I’m still working on their units but I feel like I will be able to find them eventually. 

 

[AustinO]

Preston Anderson and Douglas V Marshal both served in the 33rd Armored Regt, 3rd AD. 

[Deuce]

1 hour ago, AustinO said:

Preston Anderson and Douglas V Marshal both served in the 33rd Armored Regt, 3rd AD. 

That’s awesome information, Austin! What is your source on it? Preston Anderson and D.V. Marshal were both Soldiers that I didn’t have a lot of information to go off of. 
 

I had about 0 information for Preston but for D.V. I believed that I had a different name based off his hometown in McAllen, TX. Looking at the draft / selective service cards, the only D.V. Marshall that was from the area around that time was a Denzil Verne. More about him later

[AustinO]

https://wwiiregistry.abmc.gov/

[Deuce]

4 hours ago, AustinO said:

https://wwiiregistry.abmc.gov/

Austin - I checked it out. You may be onto something with Preston Anderson. The records I found on the site you mentioned showed that he was located about 2 hours from Springfield. That could be completely plausible after the ending of the war. 

 

I don't think that Douglas V. Marshall is the same person though. Looking through the NARA I believe that I found a match to the name and hometown mentioned on the flag. Just one more mystery to solve. 

 

Thanks for the source!

[Deuce]

Today I will share the information that I have collected on George Krochalk. After looking through the NARA, I believe that I have narrowed this signed to George J Krochalk of Minneapolis, Minnesota. His information is listed below:

 

Name: George (J) Krochalk

Birth: 08 May 1920

Birthplace: Minneapolis, Minnesota 

Service Number: Unknown

Rank: PFC

Enlistment Date: Unknown

Discharge Date: 17 October 1945

Death: 03 September 1976

Buried at the Fort Snelling National Cemetery 

 

Prior to the war, he worked at the North Star Woolen Mill and at a card room. Makes you wonder how often he ran the table playing spades with his fellow G.I.’s?

 

I was able to find a picture of his headstone. The reason that I believe his middle name is “J” is that the first and last names match the gravesite (Krochalk is a pretty unique last name) and the date of birth matches the one listed on the draft card. 
 

I may reach out to the Fort Snelling National Cemetery to see if they have any additional information on George. 

 

 

[AustinO]

The National Cemetery won't have additional details for you, unfortunately.  I live just a couple miles from there. 

[Rakkasan187]

Some great research and information from the members here. Well done.

 

I am currently researching some names on a smaller captured Third Reich Flag myself.

 

Best regards to all

 

Leigh 

[shortsix]

I've done an initial search on each name and didn't find much but I did find an article that puts Leonard j Weisgable in the 33rd Armored regiment.  Together with what Austin found I would think this makes for a pretty good chance that all the men were in the 33rd.

 

The Times Leader (PA) - Feb. 23rd 1942 -

[Deuce]

6 hours ago, shortsix said:

I've done an initial search on each name and didn't find much but I did find an article that puts Leonard j Weisgable in the 33rd Armored regiment.  Together with what Austin found I would think this makes for a pretty good chance that all the men were in the 33rd.

 

The Times Leader (PA) - Feb. 23rd 1942 -

 

On 2/2/2023 at 2:49 PM, AustinO said:

https://wwiiregistry.abmc.gov/

You two are awesome. I think you’re both definitely onto something with the 33rd Armored Regiment. I was a little skeptical at first regard D.V. Marshall but having a third tie to the 33rd Armored Regiment makes it a little more apparent. It would make sense with the information that I’ve seen to this point and ties in with the World War 2 era Armor Branch collar disk that Charlie Tucson is wearing in his picture. 
 

Funny enough, I had never heard of the 3rd Armored Division until I read “Spearhead”. I just finished it last week. Even stranger, my family member that served in the 13th Infantry Regiment was attached to Spearhead during combat operations around Cologne. He was awarded a bronze star during that battle and served as a combat medic. 
 

 

[Deuce]

Since this thread has has been extremely helpful in breaking through some walls I was unable to, the next couple posts will cover a few Soldiers that I do not have a ton of information on. 
 

Next up is Mack Meredith. The information I have collected on him is pretty sparse. I have it listed below:

 

Name: Mack Meredith

Birth: 18 November 1907

Birthplace: Hon, AR

Service Number: UNK

Rank: PFC

Enlistment Date: 04 April 1944

Discharge Date: 17 November 1945

Death: 29 January 1987 - Oklahoma City, OK

 

The only information that assisted me in identifying the individual above was the fact that Hon, AR is a small town in the middle of nowhere. I was unable to find a draft card but I did find a delayed birth certificate for a Mack Meredith born in Waldron, AR. Waldron is about a 10 minute drive from Hon. Two additional details that are interesting about the information I found. 

1. Mack’s father was born in Cherokee Nation Territory. Mack may have been part Cherokee. Tying him to Charlie Tucson is also interesting as on Charlie Tucson’s DD Form 1330 in block five (Discharge Date) they wrote the words “HON”. I’m not sure if that is an acronym or if it is a location; Hon, AR. I know this information is a long shot but I enjoy the hypotheticals. 
 

2. The delayed birth certificate was submitted by his mother in 1948 and the affidavit was signed in Fresno, California. Mack would have been 41 years old at this time! The mother also signed with a separate last name making me think she was divorced from Mack’s father at some point. 

 

All of the information above matches a grave marker in Oklahoma City for a Mack Meredith that served in the Army. 

 

 

on a separate note - if anyone has a copy of the 33rd Armored Regiment Unit History from 1945, I would love if you could help me verify these Soldiers were in the organization. I’ve had luck matching home addresses and putting names to faces by using a unit history of the 13th Infantry Regiment and I would love to try to do the same with these Soldiers!

[cagedfalcon]

On 2/3/2023 at 9:20 AM, Rakkasan187 said:

Some great research and information from the members here. Well done.

 

I am currently researching some names on a smaller captured Third Reich Flag myself.

 

Best regards to all

 

Leigh 

I have a flag needing research also. Mine has 7 GI signatures. 

[Deuce]

1 hour ago, cagedfalcon said:

I have a flag needing research also. Mine has 7 GI signatures. 

Ancestry and searching the online national archives was a great place to start! 
 

I used both of those resources to narrow down the signers based off names, hometowns, and their draft cards and went from there. This forum has also been great source of information and help!

[Deuce]

This forum has been a fantastic resource in helping to wrap up the mystery. I really appreciate the additional resources that everyone provided. The final signatories have little to no information and are as follows: 

 

Name: George (Victor) Gill

Birth: 20 July 1914

Birthplace: Fort Francis, Canada

Service Number: UNK

Rank: UNK

Enlistment Date: UNK

Discharge Date: UNK 

Death: 15 March 1973

The only George Gill I was able to find that fit the bill was George Victor Gill. His draft card states that he was born in Fort Francis, Canada. 

 

 

Name: Ben Samuel 

Birth: 28 December 1908

Birthplace: South Bend, Indiana 

Service Number: UNK

Rank: UNK

Enlistment Date: UNK

Discharge Date: UNK

Death: 27 May 1963 - Santa Barbara, California 

 

There were a lot of Ben Samuel(s) from Chicago but only one Ben Samuel. I’m not confident that this is him but the handwriting (especially the “B” and “U”) looks similar. 

 

 

Name: D.V. Marshall

Birth: UNK

Birthplace: UNK

Service Number: UNK

Rank: UNK

Enlistment Date: UNK

Discharge Date: UNK

Death: UNK

 

I haven’t been able to tie D.V. down to an exact person at this time. Douglas V. Marshall Sr seems to be the most plausible at this time but I have been unable to find anything tying him to McAllen, TX, which he signed on the flag. Douglas V Marshall was born on 03 December 1916 in New York but moved to Texas with his family when he was young. He did work in the oil industry so it is possible he moved around quite a bit within the state. He passed 31 July 1971 in Houston. 

 

The other plausible explanation is Denzil Verne Marshall who had a registered draft card in McAllen, TX. I have been unable to find much on him other than the information listed on his draft card. He was born on 29 April 1923 and passed away on 29 May 1993 in Santa Barbara, CA.  More research on my end will answer this. 

 

Name: Preston Anderson

Birth: UNK

Birthplace: UNK

Service Number: UNK

Rank: UNK

Enlistment Date: UNK

Discharge Date: UNK

Death: UNK

Springfield, TN is a nice little town located between Clarksville and Nashville. I was unable to find any draft cards matching the name and location. The only plausible mention of Preston Anderson came from this forum and is mentioned on post #9. 
 

I’ve reached out to Geoff at Golden Arrow Research. I may be moving forward with him to confirm these men are indeed 33rd Armored Regiment. Having three of their names tied to the regiment and the fact Charlie Tucson is wearing an armored branch collar disc all point towards the fact that these men were in the Spearhead Division. 

That’s all the posts I have for now. When / if I go ahead with Golden Arrow Research, I’ll post an update here. Thank you all again for the assistance in getting to this point!

[shortsix]

I've dug back into Preston Anderson and I think this may be your guy.  Rickman, TN is just north of Cookeville and just east of Nashville, so not far from Springfield.  Also on the info on his find a grave it mentions a sister living in Springfield.

 

 

Here's his find a grave - https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/135876883/preston-anderson?_gl=1*du4iay*_ga*MTc4Nzc0MDEyMy4xNjY0MTk3NDY0*_ga_4QT8FMEX30*MTY3NTYxMjU4Ny43MS4xLjE2NzU2MTI4NjQuNTkuMC4w*_ga_B2YGR3SSMB*Y2U0ZTEzNzgtZGM3Yi00ODc1LThiOTQtNDBkODJhYTZlMzQ4LjE1Ni4xLjE2NzU2MTI4NjUuNTguMC4w

 

Enlistment record -

 

Name: Preston Anderson

Race: White

Marital Status: Single, with dependents (Single)

Rank: Private

Birth Year: 1923

Nativity State or Country: Tennessee

Citizenship: Citizen

Residence: Overton, Tennessee

Education: Grammar school

Civil Occupation: Farm hands, general farms

Enlistment Date: 17 Nov 1943

Enlistment Place: Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia

Service Number: 34889095

Branch: No branch assignment

Component: Selectees (Enlisted Men)

Source: Civil Life

 

I checked Fold3 and bingo - found a hospital admission card that says this guy is in the armored forces -

 

Full Name - Anderson, Preston

Gender - Male

Race - White (includes Mexican)

Admission Age - 21

Admission Date - Jun 1945

Admission Type of Injury - Injury Type: Disease;  Injury Type: Not a traumatism

Military Service Number - 34889095

Rank - Enlisted Man (includes Aviation Cadet or Student)

Unit - 

Branch - Armored Forces, General or Unspecified

Length of Service - 1-2 yr.

Medical Diagnosis - Diagnosis: Tonsillitis, acute

Medical Treatment

Penicillin therapy (treatment with penicillin)

Discharge Type - Duty (includes AWOL)

Discharge Date - Jul 1945

Discharge Place - Aid Station, Clearing or Collection Station, Dispensary

Notes - None

Conflict Period - World War II

Served for - United States of America

 

Veterans affairs death file -

Name: Preston Anderson

Birth Date: 19 Apr 1923

Death Date:  17 Dec 1996

Enlistment Branch: ARMY

Enlistment Date: 9 Dec 1943

Discharge Date: 4 Feb 1946

[shortsix]

I was skeptical of Douglas V Marshall since his tombstone says he was a Lieutenant.  So I dug some more and it looks like your Marshall is Denzil V. Marshall.  Here's his enlistment record - 

 

Full Name - Denzil V Marshall

Army Serial Number - 38074520

Enlistment Place - Ft Sam Houston Texas

Enlistment Date - 21 Jan 1942

Army Branch - Branch Immaterial - Warrant Officers, USA

Service Branch - Army

Race or Ethnicity - White

Residence - Hidalgo County, Texas

Enlistment Term - Enlistment for the duration of the War or other emergency, plus six months, subject to the discretion of the President or otherwise according to law

Source of Army Personnel - Civil Life

Army Component - Selectees (Enlisted Men)

Level of Education - 2 years of high school

Occupation - Cooks, except private family

Marital Status - Single, without dependents

Birth Date - 1920

Birth Place - Oklahoma

 

The Monitor (TX) - April 1942 -

 

The Monitor - Oct. 1945 -

 

[Deuce]

Short Six - I believe that you have completely wrapped up the mystery, my friend. I really appreciate you taking time out of your day to help me with this research. I looked far and wide for information on Denzil but was unable to find anything on him. It’s fantastic that you were able to dig in other areas. I believe you also may be right about Preston Anderson. 
 

I was hoping to find one of the signers still with us but it appears they’ve all moved on. I’m glad that we were able to find out their story. 
 

I plan on keeping my eyes open for a 33rd armored regiment unit history. One day I would love to find pictures of the men associated with this flag. I will post back then. 
 

thanks again to all that assisted me!

[Deuce]

The NARA provided me with a tiny bit more information on Leonard Weisgable and Charlie Tucson. Both have information regarding their last units prior to discharge. On Charlie Tucson’s it says the 46th General Hospital and that he was discharged from Fort Bliss, TX on 15 NOV 1945. Leonard’s is a little more complex to decipher. He was discharged on 13 OCT 1945. The location he was discharged appears to either be an abbreviation or Unit Identifier Code (UIC). It looks like he was discharged at 1GMR PA. His Previous Organization also looks like a UIC which is 60H 42301n8cp NJ. It is interesting to note that while Charlie enlisted on 17 MAR 1944, his discharge paperwork said he had 0 years of service. Leonard had 3 years of service. 
 

I’m hoping to find a 1945 Unit History of Combat Command B, 3rd Armored Division or the Unit History of the 33rd Armored Regiment, 3rd Armored Division. These histories are usually have pictures of the Soldiers that served in them during wartime.