Will this stuff even be worth anything in 2047...?? Your Thoughts?

[RedLegRob]

I'm 40. I've been collecting militaria since I was 12.  Like most of you, I continue to spend a LOT of money on (as my girlfriend calls it) "old, smelly $hi#." I also continue to be amazed by some of the prices I've paid, and been paid, over the years. After years of collecting, and having inherited Grandad’s sizable U.S. martial firearms collection built throughout the 1980s & 90s, the appraised 'value' of my collection is not insignificant. What began as a hobby has yielded what is now a rather decent ‘investment’ who’s value I HOPE will continue to gradually increase over the years ahead.   BUT…

 

My question to the USMF field is this:  Are you ever concerned that interest in militaria (and the corresponding ‘value’ of your collections) will wane with the aging of the collector field?  Will millennials even CARE about that USMC Eagle Snap cartridge belt in 2047?

 

To the ‘older’ generations:  What have you experienced with this in the past?

 

To any of the ‘younger’ generations (Gen Y/Z): What sparked your INTEREST in the field?       

 

As a young collector tagging along to Gun Shows w/ Grandad throughout the 80s, I’d always get the “It’s great to see the youngsters getting involved” line (these days, I deliver it myself occasionally). These experiences seem to have led me to ASSUME that follow-on generations of collectors will always emerge, catch the proverbial collecting ‘bug,’ and grow to carry on the interest in our field and, correspondingly, uphold the residual ‘values’ of our treasures.

 

However, after examining this assumption a little further, I find myself concerned. A brief contemplation on the matter will quickly assert that continuance of this ‘generational’ collecting chain all starts with INTEREST in military gear.

 

Just ask yourself what got YOU interested in collecting?

 

For many of our field’s current generations, I’ll wager to guess that this critical INTEREST was likely sparked by either your (A) SERVICE EXPERIENCES (Plenty of Vietnam / Cold War / GWOT veterans out there) and/or those of family members or (B) MEDIA EXPOSURE (TV Shows of the 50s/60s, GI Joe, Top Gun, or similar influences along the lines of the ‘Saving Private Ryan / Band of Brothers Effect’ that has indisputably peaked interest in certain branches of the collecting field).

 

Ask yourself what got YOU interested in collecting… Then ask yourself, will something similar spark future generations…?

 

Personally, I’m not convinced that sizable #s of ‘Generation Z+1 / Z+2ers’ will break away from screens long enough to cultivate, pursue, or be exposed to INTERESTS similar to those that drove us into collecting. With more such interests in ‘virtual’ experiences and/or entertainment pursuits, it stands to reason that less and less disposable income will go to the pursuit of tangible interests such as militaria collecting…

 

Kind of scary to think that our collections might ultimately go the way of Baseball Cards and Beanie Babies…  

 

Anyway, thanks for reading, and I remain genuinely interested to hear what everyone may think about this concept…

[General Apathy]

Hi,

 

As an older collector when I was collecting in the early 70's it was for the love of the item and the historical context of it, no thought of a future investment, many veterans still about and could be spoken with, everything was still plentiful and surplus a running Jeep could be bought in the UK for around £100 pounds, I bought about fifteen original tanker jackets at £6 each . . . . .  .  There was NO reproduction in uniform or vehicle parts

 

I recall some British airborne veterans at the Arnhem anniversaries, initially there used to be about five coaches of veterans and they wondered what was all the interest in the uniform and vehicles by these younger post-war born collectors. As the veterans passed and the anniversaries had less veterans attending I remember a slightly different attitude from the veterans, they were now thankful that younger generations were collecting the uniforms and vehicles and attending the anniversaries in place of passing veterans. .

 

Moving on some more years I have thought about this for some time when myself and friends started we bought three bedroom houses, with gardens / parking spaces and garages / workshops, we could collect and store / display the items.  Today most youngsters can only buy / rent a one bedroom condo, no garden, no garage, one parking slot on the road outside, so no storage / no display spaces. 

 

of course we didn't have all the high maintenance costs associated with today's lifestyles. 

 

probably more I could say but that's some of my thoughts between collecting 1970's and 2020's.

 

regards lewis. 

[doinworkinvans]

I think it will be worth more - but with even more fakes will get harder and harder to weed through the bad as fakers get better.

 

Apathy hit the nail on the head with younger (I'm only 36 ) they dont have the luxury of homes and space which is very sad.  Todays economy and market has ruled that out for them.  Which I believe he is right, will play a huge roll on collecting "stuff".

 

I truly do not believe value will go down.  

[General Apathy]

53 minutes ago, doinworkinvans said:

I think it will be worth more - but with even more fakes will get harder and harder to weed through the bad as fakers get better.

 

Apathy hit the nail on the head with younger (I'm only 36 ) they dont have the luxury of homes and space which is very sad.  Todays economy and market has ruled that out for them.  Which I believe he is right, will play a huge roll on collecting "stuff".

 

I truly do not believe value will go down.  

.

Thank you for adding to my thoughts, thankfully many American farmers and businesses in the 40's, 50's, 60's had enough land that when vehicles broke-down or wore out they could be just pushed to one side and abandoned, there would be far less classics of all sorts ( and Jeeps ) on the road if this hadn't been so. 

Also a lot of surplus stores were just locked up and forgotten when the owners reached retirement age, again thankfully these have been a great source of original uniform and equipment through the 70's, 80's, 90's but as space and land is becoming more wanted and valuable a lot of these places have disappeared along with the contents for rebuilding plots.

Most collectors are from Westernised / European countries and not third world countries so as the emerging countries overtake the Western / European countries I believe the desire for memorabilia from Europe and Pacific wars will decrease. Remember and paraphrase the words from the Apocalypse film ' Charlie don't surf ' - ' Africa don't collect ' 

 

regards lewis.

 

...

[collectsmedals]

I bought my first uniform in 1970 when I was 12 years old and have been collecting ever since.

 

My interest in collecting militaria came from my father who collected mostly Nazi memorabilia, especially the daggers. I hear people today saying collecting Nazi items is an affront to those who fought in the war, but my father was a World War II Veteran who saw extensive combat and earned a Silver Star and two Purple Hearts in North Africa and Italy with the 509 Parachute Infantry Regiment. It certainly didn't offend him. I think for him it was his way of saying you lost, we won, your things are on my wall.

 

I originally started collecting Nazi memorabilia like my father, but shifted to primarily American and British uniforms and medals after my own stint with the U.S. Navy.

 

I do not collect as an investment, but as a fun relaxing hobby which I enjoy immensely. Some things I have purchased have gone up in value, some down, and some I knowingly overpaid for because I wanted to add that particular item to the collection. I especially enjoy researching uniforms and medals to find out what I can about the veteran who owned or was awarded them. On a somewhat morbid note, when I can I like to visit their graves to honor them and thank them for their service.

 

During the past fifty years the biggest impact on militaria collection has been the internet, as evidenced by this forum.

 

In my view the internet did two things regarding value of the objects being purchased. Rare or highly desirable items shot way up in value as more collectors had access to know about and compete with each other for these items, more common items fell in value as they became much easier to find. 

 

But the biggest change was the ease of access to information. Find something you don't recognize? Post it online, someone will know what it is. Need to know about what something is worth? Again, look online and you can find lots of information. Find a named item? Research is a whole lot simpler than when I started collecting.

 

I do not really worry about the worth of my collection, although as I grow older I have started to catalog what I have along with an estimated value, so that someday my children know what to try and sell it for. But at the end of the day I didn't acquire my collection as an investment, but as a hobby. 

 

 

[manayunkman]

I don’t think it will be on my mind anymore.

[mikie]

My big money concern with what I collect isn’t how much I will get out of it but how much can I afford to put into it with my small budget. I collect for the fun and pleasure of owning the item. Return of investment would be nice, but usually the last thing I think of when I get something. I sold off almost my whole collection at the time 40 years ago to finance my move across country. I was lucky if I broke even and regret giving up some nice stuff since then. 
mikie

[dhcoleterracina]

I've been collecting since I was a teen ager and am now in my 60's. I collect for the enjoyment and some things still make my heart beat faster. When that stops, I'll stop collecting. I don't want my family to deal with disposing of the collection, mostly because they might accept a very low offer for all the stuff. They really have no interest and I don't want to burden them. I've started to downsize parts of the collection that I have no interest in. Some things I make money on, some break even and some I take a loss. It is an investment but that isn't my motivation. I enjoy it, I've had to put up with comments from people who don't understand, the hunt is fun, fellow collectors are great. What I've learned is that it took years to accumulate, it will take a long time to dispose. In the end I don't care if I make a pile, it's been fun.  

[Airborne-Hunter]

Tail end of the millennials over here at 28. Young people can't afford anything because interest rates are exceedingly too low and asset prices are vehemently too high. Nobody I went to school with kindergarten through college can afford a house. Prices are too high. Wages are trash. Taxes are too high. To afford the median house in California an individual loses 51% to income taxes. Can't earn more if every marginal dollar is stolen from you. I know more people whose single largest asset is a collection than I can count.

Forget militaria. Ask a younger millennial what they think about the economy, wages, house prices, ect. Alot of the people I went to school with could probably be described as angry because it is so bleak. In short, they're hoping and praying for an inheritance. You think that's bad, go younger and try generation z. It's even worse. They're not old enough to be angry yet, but they know whats going on. The last interview I conducted yielded the best quote: "I may inherit my parents house, but I'll have to sell it because the taxes and the maintenance will be more than my total income." - 18 year old female

Military prices or collectibles in general will not be going down anytime soon. Interest rates are far too low. People are buying things they can enjoy: trips, collectibles, pets because their hopes and dreams have otherwise been destroyed. They can't afford a house, they can't afford a nice car, they can't afford kids. I know more people that have gotten into militaria in the last two years than I knew in the preceding ten. This is not changing, these will be long-term collectors.

I wouldn't worry about militaria. I'd be hoping and praying that interest rates go much higher and things go back to a normal that hasn't existed in decades because there are entire generations that have completely lost hope. Best ABN

[General Apathy]

.

I have a few pieces of enamelled signs and what amuses me is that back in the 1930's / 1940's stores and petrol stations would actually go to the cost of having enamelled signs made featuring prices, back then there wasn't constant inflation and the signs they had made they expected the same prices to last several years. 

Now you buy the same product on a daily basis and each time it's virtually guaranteed that the price is different generally higher than the day / week before before . . . . . .

 

Pension planning I think originated back in the days when prices didn't alter much, however todays government pensions ( which we paid into fifty years ) don't even meet daily / weekly living costs . . . . . . . . . . . heating, gas, electricity, petrol is a moveable feast of rising prices.  

 

regards lewis.  

[manayunkman]

Don’t get me started on current events because I’ll get banned.

 

Ill say one thing, this all could have been avoided.

[manayunkman]

As far as collecting there are lots of young guys in their 20s and younger who comb the local shows and markets.

 

There are even more who don’t get out because they don’t have transportation.

 

Recently I’ve met a 22 year old who has been buying and selling militaria to put himself through school and increase his collection of items that cost $500-5,000 each.

 

Now that’s a guy I can relate to, he’s on the ball and finds stuff.

 

Militaria collecting is on the rise.

[268th C.A.]

I have no clue, if anyone or anything will be around then. I'm not Mr. Doomsday, but considering. As far as collecting anything who knows. I do see a very small amount of young collectors, The minimalist today aren't interested in anything.  They want nothing. I've been to so many sales where boxes of family pictures are left for trash. I have a friend in Texas a WW2 Veteran. When his wife passed six years ago he told his kids to come to the house and get what they wanted. He was moving to assisted living.  This is a two story house and was packed. He told me they all came and loaded there vehicles down he said he thought the tires wouldn't hold out. This was all things they were going to sell anyway. He was having an estate sale. I asked could I come over as others had done. I was shocked to see all the family portraits and paintings of his G Grand parents left there. His father was in WW1 they left all his RPPC pictures. I asked him what he was doing with them. He said no one wanted them. Pile up what I wanted and he would tell me a price. I piled up so much stuff. Yard longs RPPC's patches dog tags. It was crazy. He said If you don't get it some one else will. The point I'm making is kids today don't care. Enough on that. I say collect what you like, life is short. Enjoy it while you can. History is not being taught. No schools take field trips to museum's anymore. Visitation is so low there closing there doors. Id volunteer at museums and all day you'd get ten visitors. I still collect and trade its my hobby and I enjoy it, I have thinned out a few things and still do. None of my nieces or nephew's have any interest out side of monetary what's it worth.   I say nothing. That's my two cents...I hope I'm wrong... 

P/S the dollar is worth twenty eight cents. So that $300. helmet is worth what $84.00 prices at shows haven't changed to match inflation. something to think about. 

One more thing, your rate of return is still better than money sitting in the bank. 

[pwcosol]

Really good commentary by all to the O.P.'s question. I started collecting around 1974 after three years in the USMC. Had to deal with the (first) "gasoline crisis" and recession at the time. Good jobs were not easy to find. I ended up back home and living with my father for a few years until things finally began to improve. Was welcomed being the "unemployed Veteran" and as a 26 year USN veteran himself, my father understood. After a three-year stint with the USPS, I moved onto a 26 year career myself with AT & T to Pacific Bell to SBC (divestiture & mergers changing the names). All the while I took to collecting military auto pistols until switching gears in 1980 to primarily military longarms 1871-1945. The only militaria I collected was related directly to the arms themselves, such as bayonets, belts, pouches, etc. It has only been recently I drifted towards US military field gear, with an emphasis on that used by The Corps.

 

The question of what will become of our hobby was a topic of discussion I first heard in the late 1970s and have continued to hear to the present day. One sage piece of advice was to always try and acquire the best items you can as they will likely increase in demand (and thus value) in the future. Seems each generation showed great concern over what will become of those coming up from behind. Unfortunately, the last two have been subjected to this new "digital world" almost from birth. Even more troubling is in my day, children were educated in how to think as opposed to "what to think" and this is perhaps the greatest threat of all because of whom is doing the teaching in many schools. One more thing... IMHO, collecting arms & militaria in our country has become what it is, due to our collective history as a nation and the Constitution our forefathers drafted and enacted as our God given rights as American citizens. As more people emigrate to this country (whether legally or not), they do not share this "collective history". How this will affect our nation is yet to be determined and may have a direct impact on the status or ability to collect and the future of our hobby.

[Wharfmaster]

Every time I walk into an antique shop and ask for militaria, the owner says you are the sixth guy today that has asked for it.

 

 

W

[stratasfan]

Interesting topic and I've enjoyed reading all the thoughts posted! Nice to hear that so many think the hobby is still strong. I'm 35 and deal with younger and older. Very limited budget, so my collection is extremely small. However, I'm a "collector" to my very core. I love collecting. I have other collections outside of military. I would never do any collection with an iota of seriousness about thinking it would be worth something in two years let alone twenty. Mom had an Occupied Japan collection that was huge and amazing and in the 80s and 90s was worth thousands and thousands. In the last ten years, we ended up having to actually "give" it away for free. It was worthless. Nobody wanted them. Dad had a vintage Brownies collection that was a about 150 cameras from box cams to bellows cams to '60s space-age stuff. Again, same as Mom's. We got $150 for it about 5 years ago. 

 

As for military . . . I think it is dying. I think it will last as long as the older gens are still hanging on and there will be some of us younger ones that are interested, too. However, I think it isn't going to be anything large in 20 years. Sadly, people these days (and the younger you are, the worse it is) aren't interested in things. They only want to sit on a mobile device. I think mobiles are the death of collecting and the death of interest, sadly. Look at how short people's attention span is on everything in life. It rubs into collecting. And I think that collecting with the mindset of investment is where it starts to die. A collection should be something that gives you happiness and something to enjoy in your life. No guarantee it will make you money. Just my thoughts here. I think with everything going on in the economy and the mobile impact on the people of the world . . . I think collecting is doomed. Not that it will be dead tomorrow, but I think planning for 20 or 40 years isn't even on my radar. I will be collecting as long as I'm breathing, but I won't expect it as an investment.

 

As to what got me interested . . . Always loved WWII history and particularly military planes. We did a lot of history (homeschooled) and we went to the Dayton AFBM a lot! Also, never had television and watch classic-era films on home video . . . so we watched a lot of WWII films. I bought uniforms and military stuff from a young age. Wore and used it all, too! 

 

I got into this "serious" hobby because I discovered a distant relative who served in WWII and I wanted a pair of wings like he'd have had. So I joined this forum to find out. Then I got Sgt stripes and campaign medals and an Air Medal like he had . . . and then I did a display for my GGUncle who served in Germany during the Occupation . . .  I still have that first wing badge, BTW, and it is the start of it all! :) 

[manayunkman]

I wish I had known about those cameras and there are still some occupied Japan pieces that have value.

 

Let me know I buy all sorts of collections.

 

Militaria is no flash in a pan it’s been steadily growing and has multi generational interest.

[stratasfan]

One other thought . . . I think that the militaria interest now requires more and more of the "grail" items and groups. Nobody wants the plain stuff . . . it has to be a KIA MoH winner on Iwo or Anzio. (I'm exaggerating a slight bit, but you get the point) It isn't enough to have something that was what was worn/used on Iwo or something that was from someone who survived Iwo . . .has to be the Oscar-Winner caliber. I find that the rest seems to be collection filler. Again . . . just my view, but it is enough of a view to have made it very clear over the past few years in particular. I've seen the market change drastically in the years I've been active on this forum alone.

[GAZOO]

I have found in other collecting markets things seem to change with Generation
specifically video games which i have been collecting since the 70s. Interest and value
change as the generations age

I have watched the market change from Heavy interest in the 2600 to Sega to Nintendo to ----
on and on as the kids age and can afford what they wanted as a kid. This however does not effect
the exceptional HIGH END one of a kind items.

i expect this will be the same with the military items. As the generations age the people talking
about the specific times will be less and less.
 My interests was sparked by my Father WWII Vet and his stories of fellow soldiers and acts of bravery.

My advice is buy what you like and try to pick up the best example with as much provenance as you can
those items will always be in demand

Just my two cents

 

[manayunkman]

I will say one thing about military collecting, there are a lot of trends.

 

There’s a lot of military that’s worthless and always has been.

 

But there are some common that are starting to rise.

 

Some pieces of clothing are going through the roof right now.

 

This is the US forum but German helmets are nutty $1000 for an ordinary single decal Army, stunning to me, I can’t do it.

 

I’m often set up at a flea market and there are many young discerning collectors who shop. 
 

Some get rides from their parents others are old enough to have their own car but they know what they want.

 

Some get money from work others buy and sell to collect.

 

When I was a kid I was the only one I knew who collected but as I got older the world started to open up.

 

 

 

[patrick_usmc]

Just to speak to one of your last points -as a young adult collector, I think a hobby like this one will maintain interest precisely because it isn’t virtual. 

 

These items were actually there. I think that once that reality clicks in, interest is piqued. 

 

Perhaps it’s just my circle of acquaintances, but I began to notice in the years after college, people wanted what was real. 

The younger generation has been so steeped in virtual everything, and I think a lot of us are sick of it. We want reality - real connection, real activities, etc. We want things that have real value. 

 

Of course, one need only look around to see that that’s not universally true. Technology, and virtual x,y, and z continue to develop like wildfire (which isn’t a bad thing, necessarily). People still spend precious time and money on “the latest trends”. 

But I think it’s true to a large enough extent that hobbies like ours have a very strong future. 

 

I particularly enjoy showing other young adults my collection, even those that aren’t super interested in history. 

The moment they realize that what they’re looking at or holding was present at a certain battle, or worn by a certain person years ago is fantastic. When that lightbulb clicks, history becomes present, relevant, and real. These people from the past become real. 

And I think that that’s something we desire strongly. 

 

As others have mentioned, there are more practical obstacles and things to consider. But as far as desire/interest in this kind of stuff goes? I don’t think there’s anything implicit in younger generations that would cause that to decrease. 
 

Maybe this is wishful thinking to some extent, but I certainly don’t think the hobby is on its deathbed. 

 

Cheers,

Patrick

[BryanJ]

The militaria items that we all enjoy and collect are extraneous to the basic necessities of life, so there are an untold number of factors, none of which we can predict, that will impact their future value.  How many folks currently own a VCR, invested in Blockbuster Video, recently invested in Bitcoin, previously considered a vacation to Russia, thought the end of the Cold War would reduce international tensions, predicted Covid, the list is long, impactful, and totally unpredictable.  I used to get together with friends and we played low stakes poker.  My rule of thumb was to never take more to the game than I could afford to lose, which I usually did.  And I always chalked up the monetary loss to the cost to hang out with my friends.  That is how I see my investment in militaria.  If you buy this stuff thinking there will be a significant payday on the back end, then I’m afraid one day there is significant potential to be sadly disappointed.  Just enjoy the ride and gracefully get off when the ride is over.

[Dave]

I have two hobbies, militaria and antique cars. 

 

I have a feeling that the militaria hobby will be around for a long time. Even within the last five years, I've seen a lot more interest from younger people. I think it's a combination of availability and young people seeing this hobby as an investment or a chance to make money. The internet has fueled this interest and there are a lot of capable young collectors out there who actually care about the hobby and are willing to invest the time and resources to become knowledge and respected authorities in areas. 

That said, I see the collector groups (like OMSA) dying off. Not that they aren't relevant...but younger people (on a whole) aren't interested in paying money to join an organization that provides very little benefit. Yes, magazines like JOMSA provide some interesting stories, but why drop the money on the annual dues when you can find just as much information within a week or two on the internet...for free? Younger people don't see the value in a one-way stovepiped club system where the annual convention is made up of 80% people over 50 (I could exaggerate slightly and say it "seems like it's 80% over 80" but that isn't true. Or at least I don't think it is). It stinks, but many focused social clubs are on their way out and will be gone within the next 20-30 years. 

 

In contrast, I see the antique car community dying out in the same period of time. Sure, people are going to inherit grandpa's old car, and they might take good care of it, but the people who know how to work on it are going to be few and far between. I'd say that in another 50 years, the number of well-preserved brass era cars that have already celebrated their 100th anniversary is going to drop precipitously. Sad to say, but it's tough to generate interest in a hobby where the "in the door" price for a decent car is $65k-$85k and that's not at all to mention the fact that many young people don't know how to work on cars, particularly old ones. It's not their fault, really...when the older generation was buying these cars used in the $1000 range back in the 50s and 60s, they could afford to tinker with their new toys, and they learned over the subsequent decades how to make things work. Parts were available, plentiful, and relatively inexpensive, so they had the opportunity to gather parts and learn through trial and error. Nowadays, if my two cylinder engine is making noise, I have maybe one or two parts suppliers IN THE WORLD and to find someone to rebuild it is going to run me $10-$15k. 

 

So looking at the two hobbies...one people can get into for a reasonable amount of money, conduct due diligence, get an education, all for less than a week's pay (for most people). The other hobby...sadly...has "valued" itself into a slowly declining existence through no fault of its own, other than the world has changed and the hobby hasn't.

 

 

[awm]

From the OP's point "(B) MEDIA EXPOSURE:" with specifically millennials and gen Z, realistic video games (Call of Duty, Enlisted, Hell Let Loose) and various recent Cinemas about war  will have positive impact on the future of collecting militaria. I have seen many younger collectors see these things on the screen and want to own a piece of that history or recreate mannequins or feel transported to that time period, even if just for a brief moment in holding a relic canteen from a battlefield. Certain things can be very affordable to the younger collector and extremely accessible on the internet. In the many forums I view on FB, many discussions are being led by younger individuals that are very knowledgeable. Even some of the online militaria resell shops, which have high quality items, are run by younger individuals to my surprise. I think militaria collecting will continue for a long time for these reasons and one can expect the prices on high-quality items to keeping rising. 

[manayunkman]

Yes the younger crowd does relate Militaria to the games they play.

 

Several times I’ve witnessed this, one guy knew what kind of obscure tank model I had because of the tank game he played.

 

Fascinating really.