"You can't understand because you weren't there"

[ShibaLegend]

I've noticed this sentiment sometimes with VN vets or people i have talked to about me collecting VN era stuff who were around during that time. Whenever people say something like this, or whenever they say this in essence, i always say "i've done my research, i have read books, i have watched veterans recollections, and i have watched videos and documentaries about what it was like there".

 

 

I guess what im asking here is, what are yall's thoughts on this? Should i feel guilty about collecting because their is stuff i will never understand because i have never served?

[USMCR79]

Who is the "They" - Be honest and say that you were not there but you respect the sacrifice of these men - The worst thing you can do is be a "know it all". Be humble and respectful when dealing with the veterans - anyone else "it doesn't matter".

 

"There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion."

Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army

 

Bill

[Allan H.]

I have always told people when they have asked about combat, is that trying to describe combat is like trying to describe chocolate ice-cream to someone who has never eaten chocolate, or ice-cream.

 

My response for you is to say, "No, I wasn't there, but I have made it my mission to try to keep the memory of those that served in Southwest Asia alive through the preservation of historical artifacts relating to the conflict."

 

Don't let anyone make you feel guilty about being who you are.

 

Allan

[gitana]

I'm surprised you would get that response from collecting. Reenacting, maybe.

 

All of the world war II vets I met were happy to have someone to relate their experiences to. Except those who wouldn't talk at all. 

I was always fascinated by combat. Having not served, I was lucky to know people who had, and would patiently answer my questions.   

 

My answer to your Vietnam vets would be, 

"I will never know what you went through, but I am trying to gain a sense of what it was like. I ask questions because I am interested and I want to learn. I collect  artifacts of that time, pieces of history that I can hold."

 

Just don't pretend you know how it was for them. You never will. 

[ShibaLegend]

Sorry if i wasn't specific about it. Probably should have worded it better on my part.

 

I've only actually experienced this about 2-3 times. Whether or not that makes it deserving of me saying "sometimes" ill let yall decide. And other than 1 specific time where i was talking to a shopkeep about me collecting, i have never said that exact list of things i have done my research on. I mainly just say i have done my research.

 

 

[ShibaLegend]

14 minutes ago, gitana said:

I'm surprised you would get that response from collecting. Reenacting, maybe.

 

All of the world war II vets I met were happy to have someone to relate their experiences to. Except those who wouldn't talk at all. 

I was always fascinated by combat. Having not served, I was lucky to know people who had, and would patiently answer my questions.   

 

My answer to your Vietnam vets would be, 

"I will never know what you went through, but I am trying to gain a sense of what it was like. I ask questions because I am interested and I want to learn. I collect  artifacts of that time, pieces of history that I can hold."

 

Just don't pretend you know how it was for them. You never will. 

You will just have to take my word for it, but i have never (at least intentionally) acted like i knew how it was. 

[doyler]

I have collected for a long time. One thing I was taught as a boy was its better to listen than to speak (so to say). I was always thrilled to meet veterans and hear them talk if they chose to. I would listen and not speak. Not my intentions to correct them. Granted we didnt have the "research" availability as we do now with the stupid phone/ www so we had to read, look at photos, speak to veterans and other collectors etc. This said I grew up during the Vietnam era and saw it nightly on the news. My parents had subscriptions to both Life and Look magazines and I spent hours going through the magazines or sitting in the attic going through the boxes of past issues looking at the photos and reading the stories.

 

Many of my early interactions were with WW2 or Korea veterans and even a few dozen WW1 veterans. Some would talk others wouldn't say much. Occasionally a WW2 veteran would ask me why I was interested in something or why would I want to buy a German flag etc. I would reply Im interested in history and find it fascinating. Collecting German items isn't my beliefs or political ideals. Many left it at that. It never bothered me the vet(s) asked me this.

 

As I got older and gained a bit more knowledge often I would be speaking to the vet or he would show me an item and say he "brought this back" or this is my squadron patch etc. I could tell the patch was a copy most likely from his association. I never corrected the veteran or told them the patch was fake etc. I just listened. It obviously didn't matter to him it wasn't war time or original. It was "his patch" he isn't a collector and most likely dont want ot hear or dont see the differance between a war time patch verses a 1970s paki copy. Hes just proud of his service and to have a patch he can wear or display. They were there I wasnt. I just wanted to listen to their stories. 

 

With Vietnam vets its often common to hear them say "you wouldn't understand you we not there". It never bothered me. It was just part of the conversation and I didnt feel like I had to prove otherwise to the vet. I just listend. Sure I had a perspective on things from growing up in the Vietnam era and a relative who was a Vietnam vet and a half dozen that were WW2 vets. My perspective of Vietnam was what I saw on the news at the time or read in magazines. 

 

 Many of the Vietnam vets when they returned didnt get the recognition or appreciation they deserved. Many still harbor the effects of that. A Vietnam vet saying "you wouldn't understand" is part of this issue in my thinking. They also will only talk about things at times with other Vietnam vets. No different than any other veterans I have met. I have also had many veterans tell me thanks for doing what I do.

 

I guess all I can add further is don't over think it. If you enjoy collecting as a hobby and the history, then enjoy it. Some will understand and some wont. Also, its it seems in the current era we have to deal with the social Karens as well. In the last couple of years, I have had interactions with a few at the local fleamarkets who feel the need to tell me or my friend "we can't collect military stuff its illegal, I know this because my fiancée is in the military". mmm interesting. This woman went out of her way to confront us and make an issue with my friend selling some military items. My friend was polite but she was very argumentative. She would interrupt him (imagine that) and state this should ne in a museum then. I just listened until she lost a little steam. I politely said if this is illegal to own and sell wht are there military surplus stores? Why does the military have auctions that allow people to buy items that are surplus or disposed of? She went blank. The deer in the head light look. I further stated many museums already have more than they can possibly maintain or display and often a museum will sell items that are duplicate to pay for operational costs. I added what museum will want hundreds of pairs of pin on rank insignias or a good conduct medal? She then got a second wind and said then it belongs to the families and should be returned. Both my friend and I stated many of the items collectors and selles get come from families who throw it away or are not interested in one reason or another. I added would it be better to throw it away in a land fill or have people who collect the items who want and appreciate them? Again, the blank look and silence. Maybe the logic was slowly sinking in. Im sure this woman knew all about the stolen valor thing and she was going to make us the new poster children for it. What was Ironic she ended up buying some German WW2 document about property seizure and transfer as it pertained to where her family originated from...go figure. So we also have to deal with the ones now who are offended that we collect. There's all types out there. Again just have fun. Enjoy collecting and if it gets to be problematic then its time to sell it off and walk away.

[gomorgan]

Well stated Ron, now I can date myself and remember when you were that young kid hanging around the shows with your father...George

[tdogchristy90]

All very nice responses. As long as you’re kind and respectful, I do not think you should worry about it much. You always do better with sugar than with vinegar. There will always be bad apples and sour grapes, just stay true to you and your mission. 
 

For me personally, I’ve always tried to relay my “credentials”. To some this may be “I go around to schools and do show and tells to school groups.” Or “I do veteran interviews” or “ I read, collect, study as much as I can.” 
 

Like you, I have never been in combat or the military. Yet I did go to school and do a lot of studying to learn this stuff. I guess for me it shows I put my money where my mouth is. It’s not meant to grand stand, just express my interest. It’s more than a ‘Band of Brothers’ passing phase. 
 

So yeah, just be respectful and kind, if it comes up you can talk about your “credentials”, again not to grand stand but to kindly express your interest. Just be kind, be yourself, and let the others worry about being upset. 

[doyler]

7 hours ago, gomorgan said:

Well stated Ron, now I can date myself and remember when you were that young kid hanging around the shows with your father...George

 

 

George

 

I hope I wasnt to much of a bother or pest. One of the high lights of the show was when you took the time to talk with me and from that my patch collection increased and spurred on my collecting due to your willingness to send me a handwritten list. I may still have that list stuck in a book some place.... 😊 people like your self and Kenny Hegwood always had time for a young over curious collector. 

[gomorgan]

Ron we've got to take that approach to youngsters in our hobby and pass it on, there's more to this than what an item is worth in dollars.  As to talking about our service in this conflict or that one, not big on that and honestly I did nothing to talk about.

[tdogchristy90]

7 minutes ago, gomorgan said:

Ron we've got to take that approach to youngsters in our hobby and pass it on, there's more to this than what an item is worth in dollars.  As to talking about our service in this conflict or that one, not big on that and honestly I did nothing to talk about.

With the nature of my work I don’t get the chance to network in this community as much as I’d like. I’m also no longer a youngster. Yet with that said the few people I have been able to talk to or interact with have left an indelible mark on me. So I 100% agree, always try to be nice, you never know who you may be able to reach or help. 

[Obviousman]

On 1/9/2023 at 9:04 AM, gitana said:

All of the world war II vets I met were happy to have someone to relate their experiences to. Except those who wouldn't talk at all. 

My brother was like that - not talk; did 2.5 tours in Vietnam with the Australian Army. First tour as a infantryman, the remainder also as a unit medic. Got MEDEVAC'd home with malaria.

 

The American experience with returning Vietnam vets was repeated here in Australia - no wonder they felt rejected. Bro actually burnt his medals in disgust. Wouldn't talk to anyone about it - except me. Perhaps just because he was my bro, perhaps because I was serving. I was amazed about his experiences. Now, I'm (or was) Navy. Primarily aviation. I felt safe in the air. But I wouldn't want to spend a second on the ground going through what these people did every day. I know I wouldn't cope.

 

(Of course, being at sea in a Navy vessel is just like being in jail... with the added chance of drowning)

 

Our countries finally realised their terrible mistakes, and welcomed our vets back like they should have been welcomed 50 years ago. I think that has gone a long way to heal the wounds we caused. I know my bro now proudly leads the 6RAR contingent every ANZAC Day.

 

So I think that when dealing with any vet, as long as you show respect then I think you aren't going too far wrong.

 

(Sorry for the rant)