Dating early (pre-LTD) USMC canteen covers

[gitana]

My understanding of the progression of early (pre-LTD) USMC covers is somewhat confused, but here's what I have. 

 

Colors. These are hard to confirm from digital photos depending light, camera settings, monitor, etc, because even the same cover can appear brown or green in different photos.

What I can see from examples posted I can broadly separate into 'khaki' (light tan, brown, or faded green) or 'pea green' (even in photos these are vivid. Is this "Olive Green"?)

 

Hooks. I often can't tell material from photos, but the shape is usually 'wide' (chicken wings - the typical USMC shape) or 'close' (like the Army hooks). 

 

 

1912 - Differing opinions

According to forum member 'Alec', DQP made M1910 covers starting in 1912 (link). If this were true, were these covers exact copies, even with the Army eagle snaps? Were they marked? Does anyone have a pre-1914 cover that can be identified as USMC? 

 

In the opposing corner, Richard Ellis stated, "The Marines first acquired the M1910 dismounted canteen cover, canteen, and cup M1910 from the Army Ordnance Department in 1912, and these were included in the Marine Uniform Regulations of 1912." To me this makes sense because I've never seen a 1912 USMC cover. And if true, there is no 'Pattern 1912' USMC cover because it was the Army's M1910. 

 

 

P-1914 

I believe it's commonly accepted that in 1914 DQP starting producing its own cover, similar to the Army M1910 but with eagle/anchor snaps. 

1914 covers are usually easy to identify because they are usually dated on the flap, "U.S.M.C. / Phila. Depot / 1914"

Those I have observed are khaki, with the hook webbing in the center of the rear, with the wide USMC hooks in a brass tube. 

 

 

 

P-1914 Variations

In no particular order, and assuming the above 1914-marked cover is the first version, the following modifications were supposedly made during about 1915-1916.

• The hook webbing was moved to the top of the rear
• Rimless eagle/anchor snaps were replaced with rimmed snaps
• Color changed from Olive Green to Olive Drab (I can't make sense of this based on examples)

 

Examples that I could find fit into two groups that are similar: 

 

1. Khaki color, high hanger with close (Army style) hanger hook, no brass tube, marked "U.S.M.C." inside flap.

2. Pea green, high hanger with wide (USMC syle) hanger hook, no brass tube, marked "U.S.M.C." inside flap or no marking discernable. 

 

Here's an example of the first one. Note the close (Army style) hook. It has rimless snaps. 
I'm not able to make any sense of why there would be a close (Army style) hook located high on the back on what's presumably a later cover. 

 

 

Here's the second one. Pea green with wide hook. 

 

 

So, to summarize, I can identify about three variations of the P-1914 cover. Where I could tell, most of these had rimless snaps. 

 

Perhaps others can provide more information on: 

• Other variations (rimmed snaps, for example).
• Why the close (Army style) hook was used on a high hanger?
• Why a lot of these early covers are khaki?
• Can we date these variations? 

 

(btw, I've also noticed that the snaps are all over the place. Some are wide, some are close together, some are out of alignment. Look at how the pea green cover has snaps that push up against the fabric edging.)

 

[robinb]

I don't have any answers for you but can submit my 3 examples for study. First is a khaki 1914 dated example with centered thick steel hook.

[robinb]

Second is one only marked USMC under the flap. High mounted thick steel wire hook.

[robinb]

Last is an unmarked thick high mounted wire hook. This one is used enough that the markings are probably just faded out.

[gitana]

Thanks Robin. 

Those seem to be conform generally to the three variations I've noticed. Interestingly, your second example seems to have the 'wide' (USMC style) hook on a high hanger while the third one has the 'close' (Army style).

Do any of them have rimmed snaps? I've noticed those can be difficult to discern from photos. 

[robinb]

I'm not sure about the rim verses no rim. They all have a rim, as do all of my other USMC belts and pouches. Some are more pronounced than others. Is that what you mean?

[gitana]

I'll use army eagle snaps to show the difference.

I only have one early USMC cover, but others have stated that there are rimless and rimmed version of the USMC eagle/anchor snaps as well. If so I don't have good photos. 

 

Early rimless

 

Later rimmed

 

[robinb]

Then I have not encountered an unrimmed USMC snap. 

[gitana]

If the DQP didn't start producing USMC covers until 1914, there wouldn't have been many rimless snaps before they switched to rimmed snaps in 1915 (assuming that date is correct, I don't have a source). 

 

I'm still curious if anyone has a source to prove that the USMC was producing its own covers starting in 1912, and if so what they look like. 

[m1a2u2]

They also stamped them USMC on the front for some. This one is from ebay, but the one I have has a very faint identical USMC stamp on the front. Recruiting posters from the time also show this stamp on the canteens.

 

 

[gitana]

Nice. 

I wondered if the USMC stamp indicated a very early pre-1914 cover. 

[Dave T]

Great thread guys. Great info and nice examples. I was about to post an early eagle snap set I found , but I will refrain as it isnt USMC specific.

Again great informative thread and I hope it continues.

👍

[gitana]

According to the library of Congress, that poster by Leyendecker is dated 1917. Too bad it's not dated 1912.

 

That rimless snap cover with the stamped USMC seems to be the earliest posted so far. We can add that as a fourth variation.

[jerry_k]

22 hours ago, m1a2u2 said:

They also stamped them USMC on the front for some. This one is from ebay, but the one I have has a very faint identical USMC stamp on the front. Recruiting posters from the time also show this stamp on the canteens.

 

 

Im totally green in WW1 stuff...

This USMC stamps are legit, Im right?

[gitana]

The consensus is that those are - although there seem to be only a few examples they are consistently marked. Some question similar markings on some of the round canteen covers. 

[m1a2u2]

 

This was actually discussed previously and I found the thread. 

https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/259329-unusual-usmc-canteen-cover-manufactured-or-field-modified/

[jerry_k]

Thanks, good lecture!

 

Jerry

[Steve Brannan]

This is the only WW1 Marine canteen cover. It’s khaki or tan with the high mounted hanger, typical Marine Corps hanger in brass. 

[gitana]

Great example. 

To me it looks like the eagle/anchor snaps each has a rim that isn't rounded like the Army snap. It's more of a shelf. 

I don't know much about these USMC snaps so I appreciate you posting yours. I'm thinking this is probably 1915 or 1916? 

 

 

[Steve Brannan]

It seems to me, I remember the Mills catalog around 1914 offered the canteen cover in either Army or Marine snaps. Don’t have that catalog handy. 

[m1a2u2]

Here is my new canteen. It has the USMC mark discussed above and rimless snaps. So I'm assuming it's one of the first canteens.

 

[gitana]

That's really nice. The 'USMC' is certainly a bonus, and hopefully information will come out about these. 

Are there any markings on the inside flaps?