Theory Regarding Paint Application Of WW2 Naval M1s

[Sneaky]

Hello folks, I’ve been wanting to post this for awhile, but haven’t had the time recently to offer a proper explanation.

 

TL:DR - I propose some WW2 M1s designated to the navy were painted in methods extending beyond a hasty brush job, with tools such as paint atomizers being used.
 

From back reading prior posts here, the general consensus seems to be naval repaints were done hastily aboard a ship with whatever you had available in the paint locker. While this certainly applies to the very, very vast majority of Navy M1s, I’ve noticed a few interesting things about examples I’ve owned with help from a close friend of mine who has a vast collection of repaints. Anything from navy, to army, from brushed to dipped (yes, dipped) in paint, he has. Together we’ve seen it all, but we couldn’t explain the complete and utter lack of brushstrokes and perfect layers of paint on a naval wartime M1 I recently purchased. I’ve examined the set from to bottom under 30x and 60x magnification and it’s perfectly painted in every aspect. Included are some photos.

 

Signal Corps photo, but an example of atomizers being used stateside during WW2 to repaint M1s
 

Fig. 1 - Exterior coat of paint

 

Fig 2. - Painted chinstrap adjuster

 

Fig 3. - Interior coat of paint

Brushtroked navy example for comparison
 

Hopefully the photos accurately show what I’ve been looking at for weeks now. If you compare it to any example with brushstrokes under a microscope, the difference is absolutely night and day in every regard.

 

I would love to hear everyone’s thoughts on this. While the evidence seems pretty obvious, I’m unsure what to think.

[sigsaye]

3 hours ago, Sneaky said:

Hello folks, I’ve been wanting to post this for awhile, but haven’t had the time recently to offer a proper explanation.

 

TL:DR - I propose some WW2 M1s designated to the navy were painted in methods extending beyond a hasty brush job, with tools such as paint atomizers being used.
 

From back reading prior posts here, the general consensus seems to be naval repaints were done hastily aboard a ship with whatever you had available in the paint locker. While this certainly applies to the very, very vast majority of Navy M1s, I’ve noticed a few interesting things about examples I’ve owned with help from a close friend of mine who has a vast collection of repaints. Anything from navy, to army, from brushed to dipped (yes, dipped) in paint, he has. Together we’ve seen it all, but we couldn’t explain the complete and utter lack of brushstrokes and perfect layers of paint on a naval wartime M1 I recently purchased. I’ve examined the set from to bottom under 30x and 60x magnification and it’s perfectly painted in every aspect. Included are some photos.

 

Signal Corps photo, but an example of atomizers being used stateside during WW2 to repaint M1s
 

Fig. 1 - Exterior coat of paint

 

Fig 2. - Painted chinstrap adjuster

 

Fig 3. - Interior coat of paint

Brushtroked navy example for comparison
 

Hopefully the photos accurately show what I’ve been looking at for weeks now. If you compare it to any example with brushstrokes under a microscope, the difference is absolutely night and day in every regard.

 

I would love to hear everyone’s thoughts on this. While the evidence seems pretty obvious, I’m unsure what to think.

So, why would some Navy helmets not be spray painted?  They had spray rigs on ships. If they had the time to set it all up, sure they’d spray them. Quicker and easier. 

[Dave]

Keep in mind also that it would have been very easy to have sent the helmets off-ship to get sprayed by a ship repair facility, navy yard, or something similar. Especially if they were all looking rusty...they'd put in a job to get them painted, the job would then be sent to whatever shop spray painted, the ship would deliver the helmets, they'd get prepped and painted and then picked back up. Probably happened hundreds (if not more) times while the M1 was in Navy service. 

[Salvage Sailor]

+1 What Dave wrote,

 

Refurbishing the helmets would have been one of thousands of tasks undertaken during a Regular Overhaul (ROH), often they were sent to a shop on shore and returned before Refresher Training (REFTRA), the next hurdle after overhaul to become operational again with the fleet.  The crew maintained them when we were on local ops and deployed.

[Paddyd00]

I would agree a hodge podge of different methods were undertaken to refurb helmets absolutely. But Also when they originally arrived from the factory to ship and were OD  …. I believe more care (and maybe a more refined method ) was taken for that original initial  layer of blue … gray …. Etc.
 

It’s fun to analyze these Cam. Glad you are enjoying it and the hobby! Keep ‘em comin

 

Z

[sigsaye]

There is no requirement for Navy helmets to be painted anything other than the standard issue OD. We painted them mostly to cover the rust and to stencil the wearers GQ station/ position on them. Even that is non standard. Talker helmets came from the factory already painted gray. That’s because, they were intended for ship board use. So, they got painted anyway that was convenient. 
 

I spray painted them with spray cans when I could. Once used a commercial electric ( unauthorized) spray paint gun. That was nice. But, mostly, they get brush painted. 

[sigsaye]

I went into the Navy in 1972. My first ship was USS Kitty Hawk, a “Newish” carrier. We had Fixed bale helmets and those big, chunky “Hawley” liners. I was still finding them into the 80s, on my second and third ships. Mostly, they were beyond economical repair, and were simply tossed over the side. Point is, a helmet in the USN, lasts a long time. When a ship is decommissioned, those things are passed around the fleet to whoever wants them (Ships), or turned into the supply system to be reissued. Mostly, I think they just trash them. When we went to the “Fritz” style, they didn’t want any of the M-1s back. 

[Burning Hazard]

On 12/21/2022 at 10:58 AM, sigsaye said:

I went into the Navy in 1972. My first ship was USS Kitty Hawk, a “Newish” carrier. We had Fixed bale helmets and those big, chunky “Hawley” liners. I was still finding them into the 80s, on my second and third ships. Mostly, they were beyond economical repair, and were simply tossed over the side. Point is, a helmet in the USN, lasts a long time. When a ship is decommissioned, those things are passed around the fleet to whoever wants them (Ships), or turned into the supply system to be reissued. Mostly, I think they just trash them. When we went to the “Fritz” style, they didn’t want any of the M-1s back. 

 

Here's a nice YouTube from Critical Past showing those Hawleys brand new, getting issued to sailors on board during WWII

 

 

Pat 

[sigsaye]

On 12/24/2022 at 9:20 PM, Burning Hazard said:

 

Here's a nice YouTube from Critical Past showing those Hawleys brand new, getting issued to sailors on board during WWII

 

 

Pat 

I’ve seen this played out a couple of times. Ship receives new helmets and the DC guys assemble them. Or, your ship is getting out of the yards and they are issuing out the helmets, so guys from each battle station are sent to the issue area and are handed the helmets that go to their station. I’ve only seen new helmets issued out once. It was much like this. 

[Burning Hazard]

59 minutes ago, sigsaye said:

I’ve seen this played out a couple of times. Ship receives new helmets and the DC guys assemble them. Or, your ship is getting out of the yards and they are issuing out the helmets, so guys from each battle station are sent to the issue area and are handed the helmets that go to their station. I’ve only seen new helmets issued out once. It was much like this. 

 

Quick question Sigs, what are those knotted ropes for in the back? They appear to be hanging them from from a main rope.

 

Pat

[Salvage Sailor]

Q.  what are those knotted ropes for in the back? They appear to be hanging them from from a main rope.

 

 

He's standing in a whaleboat (note the davit to the right and the tarpaulin to the left.  The knotted ropes are held by the boat crew to limit the sway as they lower  away to the water, preventing the boat from banging into the ships' hull.  Also, if the pelican hook(s) fail and the boat falls, the crew can hang onto the ropes and climb back onboard.

 

 

[sigsaye]

2 hours ago, Salvage Sailor said:

Q.  what are those knotted ropes for in the back? They appear to be hanging them from from a main rope.

 

 

He's standing in a whaleboat (note the davit to the right and the tarpaulin to the left.  The knotted ropes are held by the boat crew to limit the sway as they lower  away to the water, preventing the boat from banging into the ships' hull.  Also, if the pelican hook(s) fail and the boat falls, the crew can hang onto the ropes and climb back onboard.

 

 

Exactly. They’re called “Monkey Lines”. 

[mikie]

What an education I get around here. 
mikie