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What kind of 1911 holsters did pilots use during the Vietnam war?


LE LOUP DES MERS
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LE LOUP DES MERS

I have a leather bomber jacket used by a cost guard helicopter pilot during the Vietnam war. And was wondering what 1911 holsters helicopter pilots would have used? I like wearing the jacket during the winter and I never leave the house without my 1911 but the holster I currently use did not sit comfortably with the jacket on. I thought about buying a Vietnam m7 holster but I think those were mainly designed for tank crews although it would probably work. The 1911 I carry is a Colt 1991a1 so it will fit any surplus holster. 

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generally speaking, aircrews carrying sidearms, would have the pistol in a survival vest holster...the SRU-21/P for the USAF, maybe an earlier C-1 vest...at times you can see a "cowboy" pilot with a hip holster...

 

the 1911 is a big ole gun to carry...on a daily basis...The m-7 wouldn't be a bad choice...

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LE LOUP DES MERS

Yeah, most photos I saw of helicopter pilots wore vests but some articles I read said the m3 and the m7 was also worn by some pilots but generally vest is what I'm seeing. I'm still debating on either getting an original m3/7 holster probably one that dates to Vietnam or the 80s or getting a replica. DeSantis makes a replica of the m3 holster. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1024855379?pid=109237

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LE LOUP DES MERS

Wearing a survival vest in public is out of the picture and would be too wired (well maybe not nowadays). But for constant use a replica might be better. 

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There was a handful of holster options out there during Vietnam for those who had a M1911A1 pistol. Some did wear the M56 belt with a black leather M1916 hip holster as well as a combat knife or pilot survival knife.  The Nam era 1916 hip holsters will still have the 2 rivets visible on the rear of the holster,  anything later than Nam era had a single rivet.  A common maker for those holsters was Bucheimer.  The issue shoulder holster, the M7 was also used to carry the 1911 by aircrew which could also be setup and worn as the M3 style only having the shoulder strap and no chest strap.  Then you also had the leather holster on the SRU-21/P survival vest which was more intended for the .38 revolvers with a 4" barrel but could also fit a 1911.    For private purchase stuff people also bought "in country" made rigs both hip styles,  cowboy belt style holsters and also some local made shoulder rigs more detective style.  These rigs were also available for the .38 revolvers.

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LE LOUP DES MERS

I'm probably going to go with either an m7 or m3 although I could just buy both if I wanted too. Can the m7 be modified to have a mag pouch attached to the chest strap? Or is there already a way to do that?

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35 minutes ago, LE LOUP DES MERS said:

I'm probably going to go with either an m7 or m3 although I could just buy both if I wanted too. Can the m7 be modified to have a mag pouch attached to the chest strap? Or is there already a way to do that?

That's up to the individual. I've seen mag pouches slung on the strap and also riveted to the holster. I carry a 1911 daily either on my belt or stuffed in my pocket. I use a grip clip. 

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LE LOUP DES MERS
43 minutes ago, iron bender said:

That's up to the individual. I've seen mag pouches slung on the strap and also riveted to the holster. I carry a 1911 daily either on my belt or stuffed in my pocket. I use a grip clip. 

You must carry a pocket size 1911 to pull that off.

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LE LOUP DES MERS

Just bought this m7 holster off eBay for only $30. Sell says it's original Vietnam dated. I'd say it looks original too however, I'm no holster expert. 

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Salvage Sailor

Bucheimer 'perfect fit' B4 from my collection worn by a pilot in Vietnam. Fits a revolver or small automatic, not a colt 1911A1

 

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On 10/29/2022 at 3:36 AM, LE LOUP DES MERS said:

Just bought this m7 holster off eBay for only $30. Sell says it's original Vietnam dated. I'd say it looks original too however, I'm no holster expert. 

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Whats the mfg stamp on the back of that?  Can you take a close up of the markings?   Ive never seen one with the hardware all full color like that before, hard to believe its so used that all the finish wore off the metal like that.   Usually on the ones Ive seen wore out it has a dull brass finish to the hardware vs a bright silvery steel color.  Could possibly be a repro but others can probably chime in.  Bucheimer brand shoulder holsters, especially the ones marked with a date for MRT are legit Vietnam era holsters.   Also you can put one of the M56 era OD green 45 mag pockets on that chest strap using the belt clips on it.  I cant really recall seeing any pics of that being done but there are probably some out there.  I know later down the line guys in the late 80s into the 90s and on would attached the single mag M9 mag pockets on those straps.  I have one of my M7s setup that way for my M9

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This is an example of the mag pockets on the chest strap but for the later M9 9mm Beretta.  Also a pic of my Bucheimer M7, can see the markings in the rear with the date of the MRT.

US M7.jpg

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On 10/29/2022 at 2:32 PM, Salvage Sailor said:

Bucheimer 'perfect fit' B4 from my collection worn by a pilot in Vietnam. Fits a revolver or small automatic, not a colt 1911A1

 

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Was probably used to carry a Smith & Wesson M&P model 10-5 with the 4" barrel.   Was a very common aircrew weapons, especially Army wise during Vietnam.  My father wore a local or at least some Asian country made cowboy style belt with attached quick draw style holster sort of this style.  Wish he kept it but he sold it along with his furniture he bought from a local seller on the base to his replacement before leaving Vietnam.   This is a shot I cropped of another pilot my father flew with in 1969 showing the same holster/belt my father had.  They bought them at Camp Eagle located near Hue, RVN.   Can see the belt had ammo loops as well as the holster.  My father kept all of his loops filled with .38 rounds.

38rig.png

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This is also an example of the regular old belt setup with a vertical weave M1956 pistol belt (dated 63). 1911 mag pocket (dated 69) and the M1916 hip holster made by Bucheimer and MRT dated 1964.  Can also see the correct era setup of the holster having those 2 rivets which was the way these holsters were from the beginning up til the Vietnam era, then the post Nam era holsters had a single rivet there.  Not sure the exact date they switched the rivet setup.

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5 hours ago, LE LOUP DES MERS said:

The holster is made by Bolen Leather, I bought an mp 1911 mag pouch to put with the chest strap 

From what Ive looked up, Bolen didn't become a contractor til around 1974 for the military, not sure when they actually started to make the holsters but obviously Bolen would be too late for actual Vietnam era.

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LE LOUP DES MERS
4 hours ago, mohawkALSE said:

From what Ive looked up, Bolen didn't become a contractor til around 1974 for the military, not sure when they actually started to make the holsters but obviously Bolen would be too late for actual Vietnam era.

I was reading that they did make holsters during Vietnam, so I'm not sure then if you read something different. But even if it is a repro for only $30 that's a pretty good my lll kk

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4 hours ago, LE LOUP DES MERS said:

I was reading that they did make holsters during Vietnam, so I'm not sure then if you read something different. But even if it is a repro for only $30 that's a pretty good my lll kk

Where did you read that?  Id be curious to see.   What I did was look up the company name in the FSCM/CAGE code search and it showed the company was established in 1974.

 

Def not a bad price for 30.   If you look around on ebay, you can usually find the regular ones for like 35-55 bucks depending on condition and what not.  My Bucheimer I think was 40.   The newer and sometimes unassembled ones that are recent Govt contracts Ive found 20-35 at times.  Have 1 that was made Cathey (picture above with my M9) which I bought in a surplus store years ago, and I know those are post Nam era, and then a new in the bag unassembled one made by Adirondack in like 2005.   I dont like the Cathey ones as some of the hardware on the straps is plastic.

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LE LOUP DES MERS

I was reading different forms and some people say bolen leather did make holsters during Vietnam but it was a private purchase type deal. So they did make m7 holsters and hip holsters for soldiers that wanted one from them. However they did get a contract from the military it just wasn't till the mid 70s. While other people say bolen leather did make holsters for the military in Vietnam. So that's what I have read. They were making holsters before Vietnam in the early 60s for the civilian market but they went out of business in the late 70s. 

 

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LE LOUP DES MERS

They also made exact replicas of ww2 m3 holsters in the early 60s for civilians. But, I personally believe that my m7 holster is original from the 60s however it was probably a private purchase holster from an aircrew or tanker. Giving the fact it's silver, and it's not from being worn down or anything. Apparently, from what I read, the m7 holsters they made never got a black finish to the metal they were shipped out like that, it was the individual who would coat the metal black. That would also explain why bolen leather holsters were never dated. But, maybe I'm wrong and bolen leather did make holsters for the military during Vietnam, what do you guys think?

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On 11/1/2022 at 9:40 PM, LE LOUP DES MERS said:

They also made exact replicas of ww2 m3 holsters in the early 60s for civilians. But, I personally believe that my m7 holster is original from the 60s however it was probably a private purchase holster from an aircrew or tanker. Giving the fact it's silver, and it's not from being worn down or anything. Apparently, from what I read, the m7 holsters they made never got a black finish to the metal they were shipped out like that, it was the individual who would coat the metal black. That would also explain why bolen leather holsters were never dated. But, maybe I'm wrong and bolen leather did make holsters for the military during Vietnam, what do you guys think?

With the military PN on that holster below their name Id say its one from their Military contract era vs a private purchase one.   Either way it displays fine,  only that bright metal finish is odd ball.

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  • 3 months later...
LE LOUP DES MERS

So the holster I ended up going with was the m7 shoulder holster however, I ended up buying a newer made US surplus one from devil dog depot (link is down below). After a few months of using it, I will say it's a pretty good holster. So to compare the 2 m7 holsters I bought, the Vietnam surplus holster fits my 1911 a lot better then the newer one. However, the straps were getting pretty worn so I stop using it. So I bought the newer made m7 holster and after I started to brake in the holster I really started liking it. But as I said above, the 1911 doesn't fit as smoothly as the Vietnam holster did. And the retention strap was a lot more stiff to get the gun out vs the Vietnam holster was really smooth. But, to be fair I just need to use the holster more for it to get smoother. Over all I'm really liking the new surplus m7 holster devil dog depot sells. It does take awhile to break in the holster (I still need to break in my holster a little more) however it can take both a Beretta and a 1911. The 1911 I carry is a colt 1991A1 series 80 and it fits pretty nicely. 

 

https://www.devildogdepot.com/product/military-issue-m7-m9-45-leather-shoulder-holster/

 

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Milsurp Collector

Helicopter aircrews were often issued double action revolvers because they could be operated with one hand if necessary.

 

Quote

There is an adage in Army Aviation that you will leave a burning helicopter equipped solely with what is affixed to your body. Throughout most of the Vietnam War the standard issue handgun for Army aircrews was the double action .38 revolver.  In the event of a crash pilots and aircrewmen needed to be able to operate their handguns one-handed if they were injured. As Condition 1 carry was not authorized for troops armed with the 1911, the double action .38 offered easy one-handed operation and foolproof reliability. Countless Army aviators nonetheless acquired 1911 pistols through means both official and otherwise.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/guns-u-s-army-aviation-vietnam-personal-defense-weapons-slicks-snakes-loaches/

 

 

Vietnam helicopter 1.jpg

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Salvage Sailor

My buddy Larry was a Cobra pilot with the 9th Cav (KIA 1969) and this is the holster he wore with his 1911

 

CWO2LawrenceJosephBabyakinfrontofhisCobrawearinghisscarlet19thGunbandana.jpg.f2e5a8f870500b211c0cd4443307e52a.jpg

Larry in front of his Cobra, wearing his scarlet 1/9th Gun bandana

 

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