Displaying risers, etc, from an MB H7 ejection seat

[Obviousman]

I'd like to have the straps / webbing / risers from my USAF Martin Baker Mk H7 seat. I have the parachute container but it is empty; is there any way to have all the straps, etc, on display WITHOUT having to have a packed parachute container? Or should I be looking for a packed container somewhere?

[phantomfixer]

The risers are mostly(?) out of the container anyway... if you just want the look, you should be able to do that without packing the container

[RWW]

I agree with John. The risers come out of the front corners of the parachute container.  You can tuck about the right length in the container. If you have the shroud line storage tray in the container, which is what the screws holding the gold-colored straps coming out of the bottom of the container screw to, then I would suggest tying the free end of the risers to that tray, so they don't get pulled out. If you don't have the tray, then I would figure out a loop of some sort under the nut you will have to use to attach the gold straps to the container to anchor the risers to.  Sooner or later, someone will come along and give them a pull...

[Obviousman]

Are the required straps difficult to source? This is my seat 'as is'

 

[Obviousman]

And the condition of the seat is pretty good - no visible rust patches. I want to give everything a clean, though.... would a soft cloth with some WD40 on it be suitable for cleaning the metal surfaces?

[phantomfixer]

do a quick search...online...some of the aviation sites might have them... cant imagine them being impossible to find....heck the local Army Navy store actually had 1 riser for the MB seat... with buckle

 

Great looking seats guys........ I remember the seats having leg restraints, thigh and calf...these would get tossed around when doing maintenance, but when the crew showed up, we would lay the thigh restraints flat on the seat so the crew could sit on them and snap, the calf restraint was placed to the left and right to make it easier to strap in 

Personally, I wouldn't clean the seats with anything that left an oily film, unless you're storing it in a high humidity environment...and for the most part, it's an aluminum seat...if it is dusty, warm soapy water and let it dry...?

nice seats....

[Obviousman]

So what am I actually after? The diagrammes I have from the F-4D manual and various images haven't given me a clear understanding of what goes where, why and how.

[RWW]

Ejection seats are very complicated and everything on the parachute pack and the drogue parachute are connected in some way, so it is hard to explain exactly how everything goes where, why, and how. In as short an explanation as I can give, when the seat is ejected the drogue gun fires expelling the drogue slug. The drogue slug is attached to the drogue container withdrawal line which pulls open the drogue container and deploys the drogue chute which stabilize the seat until it falls below about 12,000 feet. The drogue chute is held to the seat by the drogue shackle which is attached to the scissor assembly. When the seat gets below this altitude, the barometric release assembly is triggered. When this happens, man-seat separation occurs.  The scissor assembly opens releasing the parachute hold down straps and allows the release line assembly to pull the parachute withdrawal assembly to deploy the main chute. The harness release lever is also tripped which releases all the straps and belts that hold the pilot in the seat. The seat then falls free, and the pilot makes a nylon descent.

 

F-4 parachute parts are getting harder and harder to find, and pricier and pricier. You may come out cheaper to find a complete parachute assembly rather than trying to find all the parts you need. That is a decision you will have to make when you start looking.  You may also have trouble getting US based companies to export the parts. You may have better luck with UK companies, but I have no idea about their export regulations.

 

If all you have is the parachute container, you need a set of risers, Left & Right. The left-hand riser has the clip and tunnel for the rip cord to run through. You need a rip cord assembly, parachute withdrawal line assembly, and parachute container hold-down straps. The withdrawal line assembly is what has the parachute pack closure pins on it. The parachute container hold-down straps are the gold-colored straps that are held to the bottom of the parachute container by a screw. These straps have an elastic strap coming off of them that snap to the parachute risers and a ring on the bottom end that goes over the sticker clip before the sticker clip is snapped into the seat. (You can see them in the pictures in post #2.)

 

You will probably want a set of box springs that go behind the parachute container. They don't show much, but if you know what you are looking for, you know they aren't there.

 

The green colored straps with the Velcro showing are the parachute container hold-down straps.  The top of the straps is held in place by the same pins that hold the face blind curtain in place. (These pins are on the release line assembly.) The bottom of the straps goes over the wings in the center of the inertia reel and are held in place when you snap the inertia reel straps into the inertia reel after you run them through the rollers on the risers. This picture shows the inertia reel straps routed through the rollers and you can see the bottom of the parachute container straps to the outside of the wings.

 

On top of the seat, I believe you have a drogue parachute container. You need a drogue chute withdrawal line, release line assembly, extender strap assembly, and drogue shackle. The drogue chute withdrawal line has the steel braid covering it.  It comes from the drogue gun and has the drogue chute pack closing pins on it. The release line assembly is the yellow and black strap toward the rear of the drogue chute.  It has the pins on it that hold both the face blind and the top end of parachute container hold-down straps in place. The extender strap is the sage green, kind of faded loop coming out of the right side of the drogue container. (The only reason you need the extender strap is again, if you know what you are looking at, you know it isn't there.) This loop goes through the drogue shackle and the end of the release line assembly also goes through the drogue shackle. The drogue shackle is the black piece in the center of the picture. The bolt in the back of the drogue shackle goes through the scissor assembly which is attached to the seat and folds down over the top of the drogue container.

This side view shows how the pins on the release line assembly hold the top of the parachute container hold-down straps and the face curtain in place. The pins are the long silver things under the steel braided line. This also shows how the end of the drogue chute withdrawal line is attached to the drogue gun. Look just behind the pin and you will see a coupling joining two lines. (This coupling screws together with the male on the release line assembly and the female on the parachute withdrawal line.) The line going up from the coupling is attached to the drogue withdrawal line and the bottom line from the connector in the parachute withdrawal line routed through the guillotine. (The yellow piece is the top of the guillotine.) This line continues into the parachute pack. The black plastic covered line with the red warning label on it is also part of the parachute withdrawal line. Just below the cloth top portion of the parachute container, you can see the compressed box springs that push the parachute container away from the seat when it is deployed. Another little thing you may want to do, just for the sake of accuracy, if you do not hunt down a packed parachute, is to make a set of 4-line release lanyards. At the very left edge of the below picture, you see the risers. In the fold of the risers, you see red the 4-line release lanyard. The Air Force used a red line, and the Navy used a gray line. Again, this is one of those little things most people would never notice.

It is kind of hard to see everything, but this shows how the ripcord assembly (green plastic covered line) goes over one of the cones on the parachute pack. The cable coming out of the ripcord assembly only has a ring on it. The actual pack closure pins are part of the parachute withdrawal assembly. The manuals say take a blue marker and color the piece of webbing that has the pack closure pins on it so it can be easily identified.  This blue piece has a small ring next to the first pack closing pin. This little ring goes over another come and the safety pin on the red warning line of the parachute withdrawal line holds it in place.

[Obviousman]

Outstanding! Thank you very much. I think you are right and I'll get a whole container assembly. If it is easier to get.

 

Cheers!

[Obviousman]

Just adding to that, what do people think? Should I approach someone like FlightHelmet Ltd and see if they will do a deal on container, straps, risers, etc as bulk purchase? I also need to get everything to kit out my HGU-22/P shell, so it would be a pretty big order. Think they will offer some type of discount?

 

In the long run, this might be better (both in time and cost) than trying to hunt out the various bits and pieces I need.

 

People here have a lot more experience at this so... am I dreaming? Or could it be a good way to go?

[RWW]

Finding a packed parachute that is ready to go on a seat is probably harder than finding individual parts.  Several years ago, there were some packed Navy chutes that showed up, so it is possible you will find one. If you can find a complete chute, then you will likely be ahead of the game, parts usually go for more than the whole.  Just briefly looking at the Flighthelmets page, I added up about $185 for most of the straps and lines I mentioned that showed. I didn't find everything and that was with no canopy. I have delt with the folks at Flighthelmet a couple of times over the years and found them to be good people. The only way you are going to know what works best for you is to start looking and contacting people and see what is out there. 

[Obviousman]

Much appreciated. Could you PM me the list of parts you think I'll need? Having the parachute container empty is fine, providing I have all the straps & webbing that would appear on the outside. Same with a drogue chute. container - I need the lanyard and (slug?) but not the actual chute.

 

Again, many thanks for all the help you have provided.

[Obviousman]

Apologies - I forgot you mention all the parts I'd need in an earlier post.

[Obviousman]

Well, I have most of the parts I am looking. Now I have to figure out how it all goes together!! LOL

[RWW]

Like the 3 most dreaded words at Christmas, Some Assembly Required!

 

If I can help in anyway with pictures, let me know.

 

 

 

 

[Obviousman]

On 9/30/2024 at 10:54 PM, RWW said:

Like the 3 most dreaded words at Christmas, Some Assembly Required!

 

If I can help in anyway with pictures, let me know.

 

Thanks mate - I'm going to do some work on it over the next few weeks, so will be revisiting your post & no doubt asking a lot of questions.

 

Cheers!

[Paulruss]

Little late to this.  I got some parts for mine at Flighthelmet.com.  Packing the chute into the container was not fun