Bombing Military Aviator (BMA) badge of 1918-1919

[rustywings]

That appears to be a Sweeney Co. hallmark...

[pfrost]

I'll do it and say I think it is 100% legit. Good deal and thanks for sharing!

 

P

[CliffP]

Oh but there is no question that it is a legitimate BMA badge. . . and if it is being offered to you directly at a reasonable price I would suggest that you buy it now.

 

cp

[Patchcollector]

Excellent,rare piece.Love to see more images!There is a photo resizer made just for the Forum here:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/229816-custom-resize-tool-exclusively-for-the-usmf/

[blind pew]

ww1 bomber wing. Any idea of the maker? Does the sharper cuts have similarities to Eisenstadt?

[blind pew]

reverse

 

The same type of wing is seen on p 256 and 259 of Pandis' book, yet there is no maker noted. Interestingly, despite these being private purchase presumably in Texas, Dreher & Sons made some of these (different style of course) and were in New Jersey. Also, there are Sweeney and Eisenstadt (St. Louis) attributed wings that are not the same as that posted. .

[cwnorma]

blind pew,

 

There is yet no definitive data on the maker of these. All of them I have examined have been unmarked. Most collectors will say that these are similar to some badges made by Eisenstadt, and there are indeed Eisenstadt marked badges that bear quite similar cuts to the feathering.

 

I remember when this badge posted on eMedals. I frankly have concerns about it. These badges universally have a gold US and bomb tip. This one appears to have a silver US and bomb tip. Low karat gold can tarnish, especially if it is alloyed with silver or some other metal that tarnishes. Additionally, there are relatively good reproduction sterling silver (cast) badges of this type.

 

Given that the US and bomb tip do not appear to be gold, I would want to examine this badge very, very carefully.

 

Finally, a word of caution about eMedals. While they do indeed get some good WW1 wings, they also apparently don't know the category well--a few real stinkers have snuck past them and been posted for sale on that site.

 

Chris

[Flashlarue]

Hard to tell from a black & white photo.

[blind pew]

Thanks Chris-

 

I guess we will see. Perhaps it is just the photo, as the two wings in Pandis' book from Cliff Presley and Ron Burkey also look like the US and tip of the bomb are not gold (but I assume they are).

 

I think Barry at emedals is a good guy, but can't know everything. It does appear from past sales he is a little weak on US ww1 wings. However, due to lack of traffic for those US wings (mostly german ww2 stuff), there appears to be some good deals that have happened in the past on them.

 

It doesn't seem to be cast, however (I can't see that from the photos).

blind pew,

 

There is yet no definitive data on the maker of these. All of them I have examined have been unmarked. Most collectors will say that these are similar to some badges made by Eisenstadt, and there are indeed Eisenstadt marked badges that bear quite similar cuts to the feathering.

 

I remember when this badge posted on eMedals. I frankly have concerns about it. These badges universally have a gold US and bomb tip. This one appears to have a silver US and bomb tip. Low karat gold can tarnish, especially if it is alloyed with silver or some other metal that tarnishes. Additionally, there are relatively good reproduction sterling silver (cast) badges of this type.

 

Given that the US and bomb tip do not appear to be gold, I would want to examine this badge very, very carefully.

 

Finally, a word of caution about eMedals. While they do indeed get some good WW1 wings, they also apparently don't know the category well--a few real stinkers have snuck past them and been posted for sale on that site.

 

Chris

[cwnorma]

Hard to tell from a black & white photo.

Flashlarue,

 

If you look very closely, you'll see that it's actually a color photo. Hence my concern about the lack of gold elements.

 

Best wishes!

 

Chris

[pfrost]

I would probably tread very lightly around these wings. As Chris said, there are some concerns that I would have with them too. The engraving/chasing actually looks almost OK (from what I can see), They have that kind of "bright"cuts--This is another wing from my collection that really shows off the details.

 

However I suspect that closer examination of this wing and the engraving with a loop won't hold up. The bomb in the center is lopsided. One thing I do not like at all about these wings are the backing plate, but that may be immaterial to the actual wing.

 

My sense (and this is just from what I can see) is that they are a pretty good copy of this particular wing.

http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/wwi/us/presleybombardier.shtml

But that is just my humble opinion.

[cwnorma]

blind pew,

 

Here is a link to Cliff's badge on Bob Schwartz' website:

 

http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/wwi/us/presleybombardier.shtml

 

Here is another, attributed badge apparently from the same maker:

 

Both badges demonstrate the gold bomb tip and US. Now its possible the badge in the original post also has a gold bomb tip and US; and that it is merely tarnished. As I said, I would want to examine it very, very carefully.

 

Best wishes!

 

Chris

[blind pew]

Thanks for the additional photos and explanations, guys! I will see when it arrives; Barry has a pretty good return policy if it is not good. It will be interesting to see in hand!

 

Thanks again for the information and time to examine these!

blind pew,

 

Here is a link to Cliff's badge on Bob Schwartz' website:

 

http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/wwi/us/presleybombardier.shtml

 

Here is another, attributed badge apparently from the same maker:

 

s-l1600.jpg

s-l16003.jpg

Both badges demonstrate the gold bomb tip and US. Now its possible the badge in the original post also has a gold bomb tip and US; and that it is merely tarnished. As I said, I would want to examine it very, very carefully.

 

Best wishes!

 

Chris

 

[blind pew]

Again, I can't say how much I appreciate you guys taking the time and effort to share your knowledge and experience, It is really top shelf and extremely helpful to a novice. I know it takes some time and effort to evaluate these items and critically examine them, so I hope you guys know that your efforts are very much appreciated!

 

I found a good example of the fake bomber wing which you had talked about. It is posted below and compared to the wing in question. It's good to see them in the same pic for comparison. There is more of a "3-D" appearance to the feathers on the wing in question compared to the known fake, which appears flat. Regarding the wing in question, I sent a message to Barry to ask about whether the "US" and tip of the bomb is gold or not. Nonetheless, if it arrives before he replies, we will know first hand. Barry has a good return policy if it turns out to be no good.

 

There are some big differences between this fake and the wing in question, which does not make the wing in question authentic by any means, but I guess it is a positive that the fake really sticks out.

blind pew,

 

Here is a link to Cliff's badge on Bob Schwartz' website:

 

http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/wwi/us/presleybombardier.shtml

 

Here is another, attributed badge apparently from the same maker:

 

s-l1600.jpg

s-l16003.jpg

Both badges demonstrate the gold bomb tip and US. Now its possible the badge in the original post also has a gold bomb tip and US; and that it is merely tarnished. As I said, I would want to examine it very, very carefully.

 

Best wishes!

 

Chris

[cwnorma]

blind pew,

 

It is my hope that once in hand you find the badge to be a perfect example of a WW1 Bombing Military Aviator's badge.

 

Best wishes!

 

Chris

[blind pew]

Well......................... these things are what they are. If this is a fake, I can certainly return it.

 

I really appreciate the input you guys give and really don't have an emotional stake in anything I own. I really want to know what is real and what is not; I have bought some fakes in the past, which were excellent learning experiences. Hopefully those mistakes are not huge!

 

I think we can all learn from fakes and provide a warning for what to look for. I guess we will see with this wing in question.

blind pew,

 

It is my hope that once in hand you find the badge to be a perfect example of a WW1 Bombing Military Aviator's badge.

 

Best wishes!

 

Chris

 

[rathbonemuseum.com]

I think a badge like this can only be judged in hand with good light and magnification. If you buy it from Barry who has a solid return policy, you run no risk to take a closer look.

[blind pew]

I got the wings. The US is in fact gold and there is a gold tip (worn, but gold) on the bomb. Overall the quality looks very good under a loupe.

I think a badge like this can only be judged in hand with good light and magnification. If you buy it from Barry who has a solid return policy, you run no risk to take a closer look.

 

[cwnorma]

I got the wings. The US is in fact gold and there is a gold tip (worn, but gold) on the bomb. Overall the quality looks very good under a loupe.

Awesome!

 

I look forward to seeing photos when you have time

 

Chris

[rathbonemuseum.com]

I look forward to it as well

[Tolzer]

Provenance: Rock Island Auction Company; Lot 1466; The Putnam Green/Sycamore Collection; (August 2022). 

 

WWI, U.S. Air Service, Bombing Military Aviator Wing, Sterling, Blue Padding, Gilt US and Nose

Weight: 12g

[Tolzer]

Provenance: Rock Island Auction Company; Lot 1466; The Putnam Green/Sycamore Collection; (August 2022). 

 

WWI, U.S. Air Service, Bombing Military Aviator Wing, Sterling

Weight: 16 g

[rathbonemuseum.com]

Beautiful. Do you think that is an Eisenstadt made piece?

[cwnorma]

@Tolzer,

 

Another superior wing.  Although yours is unmarked, it is either a product of Dreher or Caldwell:

 

 

 

Chris

 

[rathbonemuseum.com]

Wow!