1840 NCO engraved sword opinions

[iron bender]

My dad bought this steel scabbard, 1863 Ames sword in 1985 or 86 from (I think) Red Jackson's store, Jackson Arms. Curious about the engraving on the reverse of the scabbard throat. Can anyone from my questionable pics determine if this original to 1863? One concern I have is the sword being produced in 1863 and being engraved in March 63. Pretty short timeline, but I guess plausible as a purchase from a retailer. The engraving reads as follows

                                    Presented to --

              Sergeant Major William R. (K?) Palmer

                        8th Conn. Inf. March 1863

                         for distinguished service

 

I tried searching for the guy but no luck. Seems a Sergeant Major who would have likely been at Antietam would be a quick search. Any opinions/facts are appreciated. Please let me know if better pics are needed. Thanks in advance!

[iron bender]

I know the sword itself is original, I'm curious, specifically, about the engraving

[Bill_Carman]

This may be your guy:

 

Detail Source

Name: William R Palmer

Birth Place: Rhode Island

Enlistment Date:11 Sep 1861

Enlistment Rank: Private

Muster Date:21 Sep 1861

Muster Place: Connecticut

Muster Company: G

Muster Regiment: 8th Infantry

Muster Regiment Type: Infantry

Muster Information: Enlisted

Rank Change Date:16 Jul 1862

Rank Change Rank: Sergeant Major

Transfer date:16 Jul 1862

Transfer From Unit: G

Transfer To Unit: S

Muster Out Date:31 Mar 1863

Muster Out Information: Transferred

Side of War: Union

Survived War?: Yes

Was Officer?: Yes

Residence Place: Stonington, Connecticut

Additional Notes 2:Muster 2 Date: 31 Mar 1863; Muster 2 Place: Connecticut; Muster 2 Unit: 1514; Muster 2 Company: C; Muster 2 Regiment: 40th Infantry; Muster 2 Regiment Type: Infantry; Muster 2 Information: Transferred; Muster 3 Date: 19 Aug 1863; Muster 3 Place: Connecticut; Muster 3 Unit: 3728; Muster 3 Regiment: Commissary Dept; Muster 3 Information: Commission; Rank Change 2 Date: 01 Jan 1863; Rank Change 2 Rank: Private; Rank Change 2 Information: Reduced to ranks; Rank Change 3 Date: 31 Mar 1863; Rank Change 3 Rank: 2nd Lieutenant; Rank Change 4 Date: 19 Aug 1863; Rank Change 4 Rank: Captain; Rank Change 4 Information: Captain & Commissary of Subsistence; Transfer 2 Date: 01 Jan 1863; Transfer 2 From Unit: S; Transfer 2 To Unit: G; MusterOut 2 Date: 19 Aug 1863; MusterOut 2 Information: disch for Promo; MusterOut 3 Date: 29 Mar 1865; MusterOut 3 Information: Resigned;

Title:Connecticut: Record of Service of Men during War of Rebellion; New York: Report of the Adjutant-General 1893-1906; Heitman: Register of United States Army 1789-1903

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[iron bender]

Yes sir. That's gotta be him. Thanks so much for the information. Muster March 63 must have been the reason for the presentation sword. 

[SARGE]

I don't want to rain on your parade but there is a reason that hand lettered Civil War period presentation inscriptions like this are questioned.  Joe Walters ran House of Swords and Militaria in Kansas City for many years and produced hundreds of swords like this.  He employed a retired jeweler to hand cut inscriptions like this on the brass fittings of original CW swords in his basement workshop.  Walters would look up legitimate information in the ORs and then craft an inscription that would seem legitimate when the soldier was looked up in research.  These fake inscriptions on legitimate swords are very good fakes.  They are well known among old edged weapon collectors who tend to steer clear of these types of presentation swords.

 

Swords with etched presentations on the blade were not done by Walters so they are a much safer bet.

 

I hope this information is helpful.

 

 

[KurtA]

And figure that these NCO swords were easily obtainable in the $100 range back in the 80’s.  Plenty of “raw material” to work with for a modest investment.  

[iron bender]

Thanks for the input. I've never trusted anything like this. I didn't even realize it had the engraving until I took a repro nco baldric off of it. Well, if nothing else I learned some Civil War unit history on the 8th Connecticut Infantry. Again thanks! Love this forum

[Marktk36thIL]

Definitely a House of Swords inscription unfortunately. And I'm a firm believer that they did a couple revolvers as well. One thing to note, it seemed that also one letter or initial was misspelled in the inscriptions.

[iron bender]

I'm not familiar with House of Swords or Joe Walters. Was there one engraver or multiple? ie does all the engraving follow the same form? Were musician/nco swords the only canvas as far as swords go? For future forum searchers, this info could come in handy. Thankfully I like the sword for what it is, a wartime nco sword

[SARGE]

House of Swords is long gone.  Joe put out a thick professionally done photo catalog with generally one B/W picture of each edged weapon overall.  I would always get his newest catalog to see what the latest fakes were that were being offered.  This was back in the 1970s - 80s or thereabouts.  He was a clever fellow who would mix in perfectly good items with perhaps 10%-20% fakes.  His early fakes were quite good but he wound up as having more fake parts than real on his creations.  US Customs finally got him importing fakes from Pakistan without marking their country of origin.  He was banned from the local KC gun shows but he had a shill take some of his stuff and set up at shows.  He would always return your money quickly if you complained.  He was robbed and shot dead years ago but his fake swords still pop up at shows where you have to give the current owner the bad news.  

 

Search for House of Swords or Joe Walters in the forum search feature.

 

All part of this very interesting hobby I am afraid.

 

 

[KurtA]

I also used to get his catalogs back in the 80’s.  They were rather expensive.  $12 or so if I recall. Yes, there would always be some really good original items listed at great prices.  But if you called 30 seconds after receiving the catalog, those items were always “sold”.   He probably made more selling fake catalogs than his fake swords. I finally wised up and stopped buying his catalogs.  

[1st Sgt CES]

 Bullion Wings too !