Is this medal naming correct? Post your engraving questions here!

[Dave]

Here's a case of "buy the item, not the story". The medal is a 80s or 90s engraved piece, but with an incorrect ring attachment. And then, it was being sold as a posthumous medal from WW2. 

[KASTAUFFER]

November 2004: Here's another "privately engraved" Navy DFC, Air Medal, Purple Heart lot that sold on eBay for $1900. The seller is the brother of the original consignor of the group immediately above. Note the identical engraving on both DFC's. February 2005 update: This group reappeared on eBay this month, now being sold by a seller from Germany. It closed at $1125.

 

 

** This is also a Frank Paulus group.

 

[KASTAUFFER]

November 2005: One more privately engraved Marine DFC this time, from the same seller as the group immediate above. Notice it's the same engraving hand as the two DFC's immediately above? This lot closed for $760.00.

 

** This is also a Frank Paulus medal.

 

[KASTAUFFER]

This lot sold on eBay in January 2005 for $987.00. The seller was  newly registered, with 0 feedback, although I suspect it's just a new eBay ID of one of the sellers below. Besides the fact that the Air Medal is "privately engraved", the wings have also been made-up with fake English hallmarks and a nurse's collar badge riveted to a set of wings.

[KASTAUFFER]

Here's a new item that sold on eBay in October 2004 for $455. The name traces out to a WWII KIA, and the certificate and accolade look legit, but the medal is privately engraved. To be fair to the seller, they do not claim that their medal is officially engraved, so just another example of caveat emptor.

[KASTAUFFER]

This seller has been coming up with a number of "privately engraved" medals lately. Here's a named Silver Star and Purple Heart.  Both are slot brooch medals.  The engraving on both is very crude-- definitely not any type of official engraving. Also, a Silver Star would be numbered on a lower arm in very fine impressing, not on an upper arm. Also, a 502 numbered Silver Star would be a Bailey, Banks, & Biddle manufactured award, not a later contract WWII slot brooch piece. Thankfully his lot closed at $142, reserve not met. JULY 2004 update: the lot was relisted, and reached a final selling price of $202.50. 

 

** This looks very similar to "Chester" engraving. 

[KASTAUFFER]

Here's and example of a very questionable Purple Heart.  The engraving looks like it is very crudely machine engraved on a Robbins Co. contract WWII Army numbered planchet. The real odd thing is, the name traces out to a Marine Medal of Honor recipient!!  It's definitely not any style of official Navy/Marine hand engraving I've ever seen for WWII. This medal actually appeared twice on eBay.  Once with a buy-it-now for $499.  It was immediately snapped up.  The high bidder then contacted me about it, and I sadly informed him it was privately engraved.  He apparently was able to get out of the deal, as the listing appeared again with a buy-it-now price of $299. The listing lasted less than three hours before it was won by another unsuspecting bidder.

[KASTAUFFER]

Here's another lot from the same seller. This medal supposedly belonged to a WWI Air Corps pilot. According to the seller the name is covered up to "protect the family's privacy." The medal itself appears to be a Navy Type II full wrap brooch medal (or perhaps a  medal reribboned with a full wrap brooch). It's obviously privately engraved (unit and branch of service were never engraved on officially engraved medals), and looks to me like it was done yesterday. Also, a quick check of the 148th Squadron roster shows there was no JACK I. P*** in the squadron. This medal reached a high bid of $255, reserve not met.

[KASTAUFFER]

June 2004: A few days later this lot showed up.  Obviously the same medal and same engraving, but now the lettering is blackened. My guess is that the blackening was done with a fine point Sharpie. Also, the new listing makes no mention of numbering, which was a selling point on the first lot. This lot closed at $75.00.

[KASTAUFFER]

June 2004: Another lot from the same seller. This is supposedly a Vietnam KIA group to a an Army Captain who was KIA in 1964. While the paperwork and HBT might be original, the engraving on the medals are certainly "privately engraved." Name engraving was never done in three lines, with the middle initial taking up it's own line. This was listed as a "private auction," so no one could be warned off before it closed. This lot closed at $1500.00

[KASTAUFFER]

June 2004: Another privately engraved from the same seller, supposedly belonging to a pilot who was KIA in Vietnam. This lot originally hit $255, reserve not met. The seller then relisted the medals individually. The DFC didn't get one bid, while the Air Medal sold for $150.00.

[KASTAUFFER]

Here's an example of a privately machine engraved Purple Heart, that sold twice on eBay, each time for over $300.  The seller told me the "family had two medals," but in truth the medal was bought and returned the first time (with a 25% restocking fee), then relisted and sold again. All his auctions are private, and he pulls the images immediately after the auction closes.

[KASTAUFFER]

Hard to see, but the same engraving style as the medal immediately above.  Note the large initial caps, followed by small centered caps, with enlarged branch of service.  This medal even has a current issue crimp brooch, and someone has sewn the edges closed.

[KASTAUFFER]

Here's another lot from the same seller. Another private auction. The seller is also bidding on engraving bits and engraving templates, so he must be ramping up production.  Bronze Stars were sometimes engraved on an angle to fit longer names on a small planchet, but they were not engraved this way.  You can see some examples of properly engraved Bronze Stars in my collection shown elsewhere on this site. Amazingly, this lot closed at $510.

[KASTAUFFER]

Here's a new piece that appeared in June 2004 from the same seller.  He's actually getting better at his fake engraving. The problem is, the engraving is in the same hand as his other pieces. Again, a private auction with private seller's feedback. This auction ended with a buy-it-now price of $325.

[KASTAUFFER]

Here's a June 2004 lot from the same seller. This is supposedly a medal and pitcher group to a WWI 42nd Division soldier. The engraving on the pitcher looks like it was done yesterday (note the entire pitcher is tarnished except for the engraving!). The engraving on the medal doesn't look like any official engraving I've ever seen. This lot closed at $256.00.

[KASTAUFFER]

Now, in July 2004, the same seller comes up with this lot.  Army medals, engraved to a Navy officer. He still can't figure out what he's doing wrong!!  Of course, this lot closed for $612.00, so I guess he really doesn't have to worry too much about getting it right. I always shake my head when I see people bidding on a private auction, where the seller has private feedback.

[KASTAUFFER]

Another set of privately engraved medals from eBay.  The seller claims:

This is a nice set of three medals all identified to a figher pilot who was shot down while strafing a german convoy in Dec. 1944. There are a number of items in this lot, including three medals, the Dist. Flying Cross, The Air Medal with oakleaf cluster, and Purple Hart, each medal is named to this pilot, and marked A.C. Each medal comes in its own black and gold case, with ribbon bar, and lapel button, Along with this are copies of his certification for the Dist. Flying Cross, Air Medal. also a letter to his family giving in great detail the facts of this pilot getting shot down. and a shorter one, that was the first letter home from his C.O. some of these are marked copy,, others are not,,, There is also a 1944 christmas card from france with a a photo of the pilot and friend, with a figher in the background, glued to the back,, this is a super and nice well documented grouping,,all are in nice condition,,,,,. fine addition to any collection

Yes, there is a William E. Boyden on the WWII KIA list, but I'll guarantee these aren't his officially engraved medals. This auction closed at $731.

[KASTAUFFER]

A new lot from this seller in July 2005.  Supposedly this is a Purple Heart to a 28th Division KIA.  Unfortunately, it's the same engraving as many of the other seller's pieces below.  This one closed at $210.00

 

** This is an example of engraving from an Ebay dealer known as BOBVN3.  

[KASTAUFFER]

The same seller then turns up this spurious group.  The ID card appears to be real, but the Air Medal is an Army type (non-soldered hanger), with what appears to be impressed numbering in the wrap brooch.  While early WWII Air Medals were numbered on the brooch, this piece appears to be extremely heavily stamped, unlike the numbering seen on attributed WWII Air Medals.  The engraving is also "privately done": machine engraved with serifed letters. This lot closed at $272.

[KASTAUFFER]

A new lot from the same guy.  Again, a set of privately engraved medals with original paperwork to a Vietnam era 1st Infantry Division guy. I'd expect to see non-engraved field awarded medals. By the 1960's the Army was using machine engraving for all their officially named awards, so this set is definitely privately engraved. This lot closed at $212.50.

[KASTAUFFER]

Beginning to see a pattern here with this seller? Another privately engraved Purple Heart, again with an original clipping about the soldier. The problem with this one is not only the privately engraved medal, but the fact that there is a Purple Heart here at all! The clipping shows that the soldier was killed as a result of an accident, and the official WWII Casualty files show him as a DNB (died, non-battle). So unfortunately Kertis wasn't eligible for a posthumous Purple Heart award at all. I suppose the family could have engraved an earlier award issued to the soldier, but considering the pattern shown in the seller's other auctions, I have my doubts.  This lot closed at $111.50.

[KASTAUFFER]

Apparently the first auction didn't take, as the group was relisted in July 2005, this time closing at $300.00.  Oh well......

The same seller then auctions this lot in June of 2004. Again, a real newspaper clipping with spurious engraved medals. Compare the engraving here to some of his other listings. This lot closed at $203.85

 

** One of BOBVN3's hallmarks was to sell medals with date stamped newspaper clippings or with some piece of original paperwork.

[KASTAUFFER]

Beginning to see a pattern here with this seller? Another privately engraved Purple Heart, again with an original clipping about the soldier. The problem with this one is not only the privately engraved medal, but the fact that there is a Purple Heart here at all! The clipping shows that the soldier was killed as a result of an accident, and the official WWII Casualty files show him as a DNB (died, non-battle). So unfortunately Kertis wasn't eligible for a posthumous Purple Heart award at all. I suppose the family could have engraved an earlier award issued to the soldier, but considering the pattern shown in the seller's other auctions, I have my doubts.  This lot closed at $111.50.

[KASTAUFFER]

It just never stops, does it? Same seller, same apparently good paperwork, same "privately engraved" medals. This lot is supposedly to a Vietnam Air Force navigator.  I'd expect to see machine engraving with name only for Vietnam period awards. Does the engraving look similar to other pieces this guy has sold?  You be the judge. This lot closed at $423.87.