Is this medal naming correct? Post your engraving questions here!

[USMCR79]

1 hour ago, Pete-o MSU said:

Totally legit heart Bill, looks great!

Thanks Pete!!

[Dave]

To go a little more in the Gary L. Boyce Purple Heart. At first, I was definitely wanting to add this one to my book as he is known as the last Navy casualty for Vietnam. However, the more I looked at it (and the more pricey it became) I began to notice... there's a RING holding the planchet on, instead of a rectangle. Then, the more I looked at the planchet, the more it became obvious this was a Chinese-made fake, as were sold on eBay for several years (eBay has since stepped up their banning of the sale of these fakes, so examples are tough to find). 

 

This medal was the one that "blew the top off" of the fake Vietnam Navy Purple Hearts. It became evident that there was a person who was making these, using standard fonts and a pantograph. They were selling for large amounts of money, so it was a lucrative business for less than an hour's worth of work. Sadly, it tainted a lot of what we assumed to be "good" medals from this time period. 

 

 

 

[Dave]

Sometimes, the fakes speak for themselves. Like this one, where there's never been a font like this used for posthumous awards. Ever. Particularly with the Navy. 

[Dave]

Here's another one, also from eBay. Again, completely wrong font. 

[Dave]

This Purple Heart came up for sale at an auction in Europe. I notified the auction house that it was fake and that the original was in the possession of the National Museum of the Marine Corps (and photographed in my book) but they weren't interested. I don't know what it sold for. 

 

I've included a photo of Bauer's actual Purple Heart. They are 1000 times different...

 

 

[Dave]

Someone actually went to the effort to put research to this Purple Heart. It's not anything like what it's supposed to look like - heck, it looks brand new!

[Dave]

I believe there was already an image of this Navy and Marine Corps Medal to Hugh R. Alexander on the first page, but here's the eBay screenshot. This MIGHT pass muster if someone didn't know what they were looking at. But, it's fake. Overall, the engraving is not correct if you compare it to other NMCMs. While someone took some time and effort to engrave this, it's just not correct. 

[Dave]

During my deployment from 2019-2020, I collected images of fake and real Purple Hearts being offered for sale. Here are some of those. This one, to Robert N Stephens, is not at all correct. I'm not sure where I found this one listed, but it was offered for sale in March 2020. 

[Dave]

Not every Purple Heart that I'll post is bad. This one is a case of misattribution. The engraving is BEAUTIFUL. But, it's privately engraved. And it's not to the KIA Marine John R. Carr, as the seller made it out to be. However, some people really liked it and bid it up quite high for a privately engraved medal. 
 

 

[Dave]

This particular seller had the Pye Purple Heart as well as several others. They're pretty much hideous, to be honest. Incorrect engraving, incorrect font, artificial distressing. This Purple Heart to Harry S. Mack is really a mess...

 

 

[Dave]

Again, not all of these are bad. In fact, part of the adventure in studying these is finding engraving styles that are official but not common. That's like this one to Jack Cohen, which was bought by a member of the forum. It's a beautiful, officially-engraved WIA Purple Heart. 

[Dave]

This is one where I wasn't initially a big fan of the engraving, but it turned out to be 100% correct but for a Cold War KIA (incidentally, it sold for far more than the bid on the screenshot...) 🤣

[Dave]

As far as this one to Glenn E. Baude, it was actually described correctly and is what I'd expect from a current, engraved replacement Purple Heart. This type of engraving is done with a laser. 

[Dave]

I'm really not sure how someone tried to engrave this medal to Charles J. Anderson, but it's a mess. Really bad. It is not at all correct for engraving, particularly for a WW2 KIA.

 

 

[FriarChuck]

Dave, your last post touches on something I wanted to ask. The realm of legitimate privately engraved medals. What are good ways to tell the differences? Or are the fakes usually being presented as government presentation pieces? Because it seems like private engraving makes everything much more complicated! Excellent post. Thanks. 
 

Friar

P.S. I need to look into getting your book. I don’t collect medals outside of my family members but I love learning more about them. 

[Dave]

This one is not at all the right kind of engraving for a WW2 KIA. First off, it wasn't done by hand or by rotating tool (your choices for WW2 Army/AAF KIA medals). It was done via a pantograph. It also has the rank (wrong) and "AC" (wrong) for a posthumous medal. 

[Dave]

Just now, FriarChuck said:

Dave, your last post touches on something I wanted to ask. The realm of legitimate privately engraved medals. What are good ways to tell the differences? Or are the fakes usually being presented as government presentation pieces? Because it seems like private engraving makes everything much more complicated! Excellent post. Thanks. 
 

Friar

P.S. I need to look into getting your book. I don’t collect medals outside of my family members but I love learning more about them. 

 

Thanks! It really becomes "when you know what you're looking for, you'll see it" sort of thing. There are some really fantastic privately engraved medals out there to WIAs. That said, being able to tell if they are vintage or recently done is something of a gut feeling. Having spent time studying engraving done by modern engravers, nearly all of these fonts can be duplicated, so it's tough to say something was done during the 1940s or more recently aside from overall patina and such. As far as them being passed off for officially engraved awards, no posthumously awarded medals were privately engraved. So, the officially engraved posthumous medals would follow an exact font and style for the branch of service and time period. Are there known examples where other awards of the Purple Heart to someone who was later killed privately engraved? Yes, there are several in my book. However, it becomes pretty obvious when you see them and the official ones, side by side, which one is privately engraved and which one is from the government. Hope that helps!

[manayunkman]

15 minutes ago, Dave said:

Not every Purple Heart that I'll post is bad. This one is a case of misattribution. The engraving is BEAUTIFUL. But, it's privately engraved. And it's not to the KIA Marine John R. Carr, as the seller made it out to be. However, some people really liked it and bid it up quite high for a privately engraved medal. 
 

 

 

 

Dave,

 

What auction was this in?

 

 Thanks 

[Dave]

These medals were being advertised as from WW2. They weren't. They're replacements from the 90s. 

[Dave]

Just now, manayunkman said:

 

 

Dave,

 

What auction was this in?

 

 Thanks 

 

This was on eBay. 

[Dave]

This medal to Lois Slover has actually made the rounds since it was sold on eBay. It's 80s or 90s engraving. Official, but it shouldn't be in that box - someone made up the group to look like it was an actual wartime set. 

[Dave]

This one was described correctly, but I'm sure people were scared off by the stamped name. It's official. Not pretty, but definitely official. 

[Dave]

Another one from a known seller of really bad fakes. This is an entire group with paper and everything...but the medal is not at all correct with the engraving. AND, in this case, the brooch is 100% wrong as well. Someone actually tried to make this look real! 

[Dave]

This was one of those auctions where you get really excited, hoping it's a great buy it now...only to find out the engraving's just a mess. It's privately engraved but I couldn't tell when it was done...my gut says far more recently than 1944. The engraving, overall, is just not attractive. That said, it wasn't being sold as a posthumous medal, so it was what it was. 

 

Note the final photo is from whoever bought the group and then decided to split the Purple Heart out of the box and sell it on it's own. 

 

 

[Dave]

This is a case that's often seen. Someone gets a named medal, like this one to Harold G. Natibidad and "dresses it up" with a WW2 era box, older brooch and drape, and then tries to pass it off for a "vintage" medal. The only problem is knowing that the engraving style, while official, wasn't used till the 1980s. So...it shouldn't have that drape, that brooch, or be in that box.