Is this medal naming correct? Post your engraving questions here!

[Dave]

This thread is like its counterpart in the wings section where people can feel free to post images of naming/engraving on medals to see if it is correct or not. Please keep it civil and let's use this thread as an educational resource rather than pointing fingers. Note that not everything posted here will be fake or bad engraving: one thing I've learned in studying engraving over the last few years is that our body of knowledge has grown considerably since this forum first started. We are always learning, and that's what makes this hobby interesting. 

 

Please post screenshots of the engraving in question rather than links to auctions or websites as those disappear over time. **Also, when posting a medal that's named, please type the name on the medal in order to make it searchable/findable for those also questioning it. 

Thanks!

Dave

[Dave]

I'll get this kicked off with some of the bad engraving I've seen over time. 

 

These medals were all offered in an auction in Ohio twice. They were sold and have since resurfaced in multiple locations. I consider these the "Ohio Auction" medals. These medals are engraved to James L. Shumate, Harry A. Kocher, Russell R. Hartline, Henry CP Burke, Leon A. Vaughn, Lewell T. Huff, William D. Lower, Howard G. Foreman, and Harold E. Frederickson. 

[S1991]

First of all, thanks Dave for making this thread! It'll surely become one of the most viewed ones for new and older collectors on engraved medals.

 

One of the few bad engravings found on a engraved WWII Bronze Star and Purple Heart to a 82nd Airborne Division KIA. 

 

Robert G. Dew, the engraving on the Purple Heart has been confirmed as being a bad one. Not sure on the Bronze Star.

 

 

[Pete-o MSU]

I’m going to do a brain dump also here

 

 

[Pete-o MSU]

More

[Pete-o MSU]

More

[S1991]

If I may add.. Wouldn't it also be a good idea for those, who know why a certain engraving is bad, to also mention it?

That way everyone will be able to look at the fault, rather then guessing.

 

Especially for the newbies like me. That way we can all learn from the various engraving styles and perhaps see resemblance in other fake ones.

[Pete-o MSU]

The three Purple Hearts about with the weird “J” were allegedly WWII KIA. You won’t find this type of “J” on a real wwii KIA. Also the engraving lines are too thin

[Pete-o MSU]

On WWII Type 1 and 2 Navy Purple Hearts you should see cuts like the ones that are illustrated in this photo. Also note how blocky the engraving tool is on the letter O.
 

If you don’t see these cuts then I would question the engraving. 

[swabbie]

Someone who remembers the story about Frank ? who was a master engraver and produced some very good fakes.  I assume that's who did your Bull DFC.  Expounding on that DFC could save some readers a boat load of money.  And thanks Pete-o MSU for posting!

BTW, I remember a very good thread years past with some of his work on the Forum.

[Pete-o MSU]

Like I said above you need to look closely at the construction of the letters. Trying to illustrate the differences with this side by side. One isn’t like the others. Look at the “O”

[Pete-o MSU]

Again look at the engraving cuts 

 

from the forum tigerfan aka Roger has an amazing documented silver star group (Scobell) vs this new silver star 

[Pete-o MSU]

At the very least we need some better photos of some of these other medals that are outside of the norm and more importantly to know where they came from. 

[Pete-o MSU]

“From an old collection” also not going to cut it.

[Pete-o MSU]

Again compare the first three vs Vanderpool, Harrison, and Dawn. Feel free to compare against any Pearl Purple Heart. I think they need to be discussed further.

[Pete-o MSU]

I also want to say I am not trying to single anyone out as these are good fakes and could fool any of us including me. And I now believe one group might have. I am trying to help educate and start a conversation. Dan is a victim also. 

[KASTAUFFER]

Here is a real medal and a fake to the same vet.

 

The real one is the first one .

[KASTAUFFER]

Here are a few more fakes that I happened to find in my photo library.  Many of these are the work of Frank Paulus. He was an early faker of medals  back in the 1980s.

 

The USMC PHs and Vietnam Navy PH are someone elses "work"

 

This is believed to be the work of Frank Paulus. This was last sold at a show of shows a few years ago with the fake Purple Heart.

 

 

 

This is believed to be the work of Frank Paulus.

 

 

This is believed to be the work of Frank Paulus.

 

 

 

This is believed to be the work of Frank Paulus.

 

 

Dave describes this one later on in the thread. It’s engraved on a fake Chinese made planchette.

 

 

unsure who to attribute this work too.

 

 

This is believed to be the work of Frank Paulus.

 

[KASTAUFFER]

This was sold on a forum a few years ago. Engraving is very amateurish. Very ugly and definitely a one looker when it comes to spotting a fake.

 

[mkite93]

I think this is a great topic and resource. I have spent some time reviewing Dave’s book and many of the known engraving styles posted through the forum, I’m no expert like Dave and Kurt. While there will always be obvious fakes I’ve noticed there can be quite the variation in the Type 1 Navy medals as stated above. I think we need to remember and take in consideration that just because a medal might not have a particular feature doesn’t necessarily mean it’s bad and this is mainly in reference to early navy engraving  These were done by human hand no two might be exactly alike plus consideration must be given to the experience of the engraver, I can’t imagine all were professionals on day one on the job. As well as wear on the engraving tool over time. Unfortunately the same could be said for anyone attempting to fake any medal engraving and I imagine the more information that’s out there the better the fakes will get. 

[USMCR79]

3 hours ago, KASTAUFFER said:

Here are a few more fakes that I happened to find in my photo library.  Many of these are the work of Frank Paulus. He was an early faker of medals  back in the 1980s.

 

The USMC PHs and Vietnam Navy PH are someone elses "work"

 

 

Yup I remember Frank and I think he ran some of his stuff thru Al Gleims auction and I guess Al did not catch it

 

Bill

[swabbie]

Bill,

I remember one such DFC to a Marine backseater.  Al caught it and retracted it before it was actually auctioned.  It seemed that the original was still in the possession of the family.  If there were others, I do not know.

[USMCR79]

5 minutes ago, swabbie said:

Bill,

I remember one such DFC to a Marine backseater.  Al caught it and retracted it before it was actually auctioned.  It seemed that the original was still in the possession of the family.  If there were others, I do not know.

Yes I remember the Marine's name was Toms. This whole subject has been an eye opener for me. 

[USMCR79]

This is one that I have had for 20+ years that I bought directly from the great niece - He was a KIA on the USS Pringle when it was hit by a Kamakazie.

 

I plan to take it to Nashville in November

 

Bill

[Pete-o MSU]

Totally legit heart Bill, looks great!