Marine Raider camouflage helmet

[bigschuss]

9 hours ago, Pizzamilitaria said:

 Sorry I dont live on the forum. If you could please turn your eyes to the writing on top of the picture to give that a read I'm sure you could pick up some information. 😉

 

No, I saw that originally when you posted the helmet a few weeks ago.  I was trying to make a point.  It amazes me that in this era of collecting and high end fakes, that a super rare helmet like this can come "out of the woodwork" yet nobody EVER establishes provenance, knowing that it is bound to stir up debate and be heavily scrutinized.  

 

These "Holy Grail" marine Raider helmets all look the same, as if done by the same hand.  All exceedingly rare.  And they never have provenance.  My prediction...we will see more of these continue to pop up in the coming years.  

 

 

[ottodog8]

I wouldn't touch one of these unless it was handed to me by the vet who wore it, and that ain't gonna happen anymore. In my time I've spoken to many, many, WW2 vets, asking them many questions from a collector's point of view. I never met one who cared to bring his helmet home. 

Anyone who believes in this type of helmet clearly never served in the military, at least in the field. Helmets were used for all kinds of things such as cooking, shaving, washing, etc. All that stuff hanging on it would just get in the way. Not to mention that after the operation was over the troops would clean their equipment and weapons and stand inspections, rear area duties, etc., and all that pretty camo would get tossed. The chances of a helmet staying with that camo on it for the rest of the war is zero. Same goes for paratroop helmets with their scrim.  The exception is Marine covers, because they were regulation, not expedient.

[elh1311]

2 hours ago, ottodog8 said:

I wouldn't touch one of these unless it was handed to me by the vet who wore it, and that ain't gonna happen anymore. In my time I've spoken to many, many, WW2 vets, asking them many questions from a collector's point of view. I never met one who cared to bring his helmet home. 

Anyone who believes in this type of helmet clearly never served in the military, at least in the field. Helmets were used for all kinds of things such as cooking, shaving, washing, etc. All that stuff hanging on it would just get in the way. Not to mention that after the operation was over the troops would clean their equipment and weapons and stand inspections, rear area duties, etc., and all that pretty camo would get tossed. The chances of a helmet staying with that camo on it for the rest of the war is zero. Same goes for paratroop helmets with their scrim.  The exception is Marine covers, because they were regulation, not expedient.

I was issued several different helmets during my time, from k-pots to MICH to Ops-Core FAST. Of those, I only have one that I kept and how I was able to keep it is still a mystery to me. 

 

[king802]

7 hours ago, bigschuss said:

 

 

These "Holy Grail" marine Raider helmets all look the same, as if done by the same hand.  All exceedingly rare.  And they never have provenance.  My prediction...we will see more of these continue to pop up in the coming years.  

 

 

I doubt you will have to wait that long. There’s one on Lux Militaria at the moment and there was another on another European site back about Easter time. 
 

These are turning up on a regular basis.

[644td]

Well, it was pulled or a deal was made.

[Pizzamilitaria]

7 minutes ago, 644td said:

Well, it was pulled or a deal was made.

I found a full name so I'd like to keep it for now, more research needs to be done on the veteran.

[conn]

climate much different that in ETO.

my friend was a Marine Raider (long since past). i would ask him and other members of the MCL about all different things about equipment.  I remember them telling me the jungle rotted things fast, not much lasted after 3 months.

 

[mdk0911]

From the pictures from the OP  - What concerns me the most is no patina on the burlap - I don't see the cover molded to the lid like I would like to see from rain or humidity - no mud or wear  - This lid and cover definitely need to see in hand. I just don't see the wear the the PTO environment would do to this burlap. 

Maybe the vet didn't see any action? 

[Pegasus6]

Hey all, been a while.

 

Here is my nickel. Asides the 2 raider “” helmets acknowledged by Members of this forum, I have as I know it one of the few army styled burlap / painted via “” of USMC amphibious trained Army Units “”. My Id’ed FB that was posted in the “” holy grail thread. So the bottom line up front, California NG regt, undergoes amphib training in gulf by the USMC in 43. But he ends up going to Europe. So Im not sure because his full records are still elusive, that he was with the 7th during the kwajelene campaign or not. But he underwent USMC training for the PTO. So what did the USMC do for the army? Showed em what the raiders did, burlap, and paint splotch like our “” new frog skin. Almost none of the burlap exists, nor the chinstraps. But it shows the marines were also training army units in numbers stateside how to use burlap, and what is the camo “” scheme alas the new frog-skin. So my point is just because its burlaped and painted doesnt mean its a “” raider. And just because its not been abused doesnt mean it wasnt made “” back in that period or any period following, it was common knowledge to a larger community than raiders “” what camo options were available or how to do this. Its also interesting and I note the 7th, 81st, 77th are known for pretty good photos of the common unique nets or paint jobs during different campaigns. 
 

It was stated I agree things dont last… and this piece has no patina and or sweat discoloration, it doesnt have any characteristics of use or even poor storage in any humidity at a given time. There are lots or things to consider. Would love to see it photographed under blacklight…. To me its totally possible this was made as a demo piece on the coast of the Mississippi in 1943, or san diego, or anywhere marines where teaching at that time period. But thats just one “” I made up possible scenarios. Non of us will never know… its impossible. Nobody collected or cared or ever had any provenance, because it didn't exist or poor caretakers of history. No provenance… as posted even with a name. Matching a raider scroll “”. Cant tie them. With a first and last. It could* be a great “” made sometime using period methods. If blacklight shows true… again no prov.
 

But it does make me a little uneasy that this did garnish attn, and then you went to sell. And then pulled it. Whats the new info? I dunno I'm skeptical. Would love to believe but…. Been around more than a few hot minutes. Please share more details. Also multiple blacklight photo… of cover outside and inside please and liner interior. Because after all, if this is a set “” it all has to match to be real… please share more with us. Engage new member engage. Make us believe. ahh. Feels good to be back. -peg6

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pegasus6]

1 hour ago, Pegasus6 said:

Hey all, been a while.

 

Here is my nickel. Asides the 2 raider “” helmets acknowledged by Members of this forum, I have as I know it one of the few army styled burlap / painted via “” of USMC amphibious trained Army Units “”. My Id’ed FB that was posted in the “” holy grail thread. So the bottom line up front, California NG regt, undergoes amphib training in gulf by the USMC in 43. But he ends up going to Europe. So Im not sure because his full records are still elusive, that he was with the 7th during the kwajelene campaign or not. But he underwent USMC training for the PTO. So what did the USMC do for the army? Showed em what the raiders did, burlap, and paint splotch like our “” new frog skin. Almost none of the burlap exists, nor the chinstraps. But it shows the marines were also training army units in numbers stateside how to use burlap, and what is the camo “” scheme alas the new frog-skin. So my point is just because its burlaped and painted doesnt mean its a “” raider. And just because its not been abused doesnt mean it wasnt made “” back in that period or any period following, it was common knowledge to a larger community than raiders “” what camo options were available or how to do this. Its also interesting and I note the 7th, 81st, 77th are known for pretty good photos of the common unique nets or paint jobs during different campaigns. 
 

It was stated I agree things dont last… and this piece has no patina and or sweat discoloration, it doesnt have any characteristics of use or even poor storage in any humidity at a given time. There are lots or things to consider. Would love to see it photographed under blacklight…. To me its totally possible this was made as a demo piece on the coast of the Mississippi in 1943, or san diego, or anywhere marines where teaching at that time period. But thats just one “” I made up possible scenarios. Non of us will never know… its impossible. Nobody collected or cared or ever had any provenance, because it didn't exist or poor caretakers of history. No provenance… as posted even with a name. Matching a raider scroll “”. Cant tie them. With a first and last. It could* be a great “” made sometime using period methods. If blacklight shows true… again no prov.
 

But it does make me a little uneasy that this did garnish attn, and then you went to sell. And then pulled it. Whats the new info? I dunno I'm skeptical. Would love to believe but…. Been around more than a few hot minutes. Please share more details. Also multiple blacklight photo… of cover outside and inside please and liner interior. Because after all, if this is a set “” it all has to match to be real… please share more with us. Engage new member engage. Make us believe. ahh. Feels good to be back. -peg6

 

Theres photos an Army inf Regt. Trained, Burlap USMC “1 style of raider” from 1943. (Id’ed Army Inf. Officer, California NG, activated put under 7th ID underwent amphibious/jungle training by USMC in 43.) So yea thats what we are lucky to see even exist. On wwII burlap… 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[manayunkman]

18 minutes ago, Pegasus6 said:

What’s that?

[Pegasus6]

54 minutes ago, manayunkman said:

What’s that?

Since my post in the holy grail I discovered that the helmet actually belong to an Army 59th infantry regiment in NCO, turned officer, Thomas S Zitelli. 
 

https://picclick.com/US-Army-Capt-footlocker-IDd-WWII-Aleutians-264880312025.html

59th

“It began rigorous amphibious assault training under Marines from the Fleet Marine Force, before being deployed to fight in the Pacific theater instead of Africa.”

[JerryTheGerman]

As shown above, even in weather like San Diego these helmets can be rotted pretty badly, so it’s kinda hard to believe that a supposed “marine raider” helmet would survive for such a long time. The only types I would even consider being able to survive this long in perfect weather and conditions are burlap covered in layers of paint. If you would say where you got it from it may help us understand if it could or couldn’t be plausible to have survived. You have some great items in your collection and I hope you show them here, but this one might be a big “ouch”. For the members PM him on Instagram and being rude please keep it civil and on the forum.

[63 RECON]

Having worked in the jungle environment (nothing like what guys went through in ww2) no burlap would survive long enough to look like it does on that helmet. that looks like I painted it yesterday. 

 

OP - you say you've collecting for a while but you post a helmet like this claiming it to be real then back pedal when challenged, Can you show any of your other items in your collection? the painted helmets you said you had?

 

Also, OP - are you a guy that's been banned from the forum under other names for faking helmets in the past? I cant recall the name but others might know who I'm talking about. 

 

If you're not, then accept my apologies and crack on.

[manayunkman]

Is it just me but I’ve never seen one of these helmets until just recently.

[Smokeshow]

16 hours ago, 63 RECON said:

Having worked in the jungle environment (nothing like what guys went through in ww2) no burlap would survive long enough to look like it does on that helmet. that looks like I painted it yesterday. 

 

OP - you say you've collecting for a while but you post a helmet like this claiming it to be real then back pedal when challenged, Can you show any of your other items in your collection? the painted helmets you said you had?

 

Also, OP - are you a guy that's been banned from the forum under other names for faking helmets in the past? I cant recall the name but others might know who I'm talking about. 

 

If you're not, then accept my apologies and crack on.

I think you were referencing someone like J Kash or something similar to that name? The airborne helmet debacle was pretty bad. That thread can found in the helmet section with some searching . 

 

found the thread- 

 

[Pegasus6]

That name jamie kasheta (exact spelling) aka was jkash was like hearing the black tongue lol oh man. Digs up old memories.

[Smokeshow]

12 minutes ago, Pegasus6 said:

That name jamie kasheta (exact spelling) aka was jkash was like hearing the black tongue lol oh man. Digs up old memories.

I was just answering his question. I did not say that this is a Jkash creation 😉. But I read that whole thread recently and felt like I needed a shower after it. 

[airborneguy44]

Please note, the OP was recently caught faking UNIS marked Marine gear, adding writing and altering original Japanese flags and scratching a name to a Ka-bar knife and advertising it as identified. I already had very heavy doubts about the originality of the burlap on the helmet, but this about seals the deal for me that it’s also bogus. 

[manayunkman]

 🍕 

[pacreamer]

Oh boy. 
 

Are there links to those faked items?

[JerryTheGerman]

2 hours ago, pacreamer said:

Oh boy. 
 

Are there links to those faked items?

I don’t believe so, he deleted most of his instagram posts and eBay listings. I know he sold a KA-BAR with a name scratched into it that was supposedly a silver star corpsman (which was obviously fake), I’m pretty sure there were also a few Japanese flags he aged. He has a few fake unis gear too

[elh1311]

11 hours ago, airborneguy44 said:

Please note, the OP was recently caught faking UNIS marked Marine gear, adding writing and altering original Japanese flags and scratching a name to a Ka-bar knife and advertising it as identified. I already had very heavy doubts about the originality of the burlap on the helmet, but this about seals the deal for me that it’s also bogus. 

Oh man, that's not good. 

[pacreamer]

Yeah it’s not. After learning that it seems to me that the OP’s integrity and legitimacy has been thrown out the window.
 

How can we as fellow forum members believe anything OP says now?  

[gwb123]

Thread locked for further review.

 

Just a reminder that accusing someone of purposely selling fake merchandise is very serious and not taken lightly by the Forum management.