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General Industries mystery TO wing


John Cooper
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Ok so here is one for folks to chew on... This specific TO wing is often found on Ebay along with other wings marked with the GI hallmark. I know this as General Industries although other might call it General Insignia.

 

The mystery to me is the following:

 

1) When was this wing made?

2) What is the actual company name and info

 

First let me post an unfinished version die struck in brass. The wing has not been finished i.e. no plating nor smoothing of the ruff edges.

 

tounfinished.jpg

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Now let me post the finished version. The finish is unknown to me except it is silver colored... I am interested to know the thoughts of others on the wing and the maker...

 

John

 

tofinished.jpg

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Hi John,

I see these all the time on E-bay and have always thought they were fakes because they always seem to be there and the low prices. think.gif

 

AW.

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John,

I personally think these things are modern, at least the brass ones, I picked up a few of the brass ones myself on eBay, even though the seller claimed they were WWII era. General Industries is the company name, but who knows who has the dies now, probably Alan Beckman in Chicago? Joe W. might know, he has some listed on eBay right now: 370162548495 or you can get 2 of the brass ones here: 180325679190 for 8.99!

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In a conversation I had with another interested collector we speculated they could have been made for sale in Army Navy surplus stores or be old stock that was bought up and then sold off at a later date.

 

IIRC - the guy who sold these to me tolkd be he worked for a surplus store and this was something they had (just the unfinished wings) and he aquired.

 

John

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John,

I personally think these things are modern, at least the brass ones, I picked up a few of the brass ones myself on eBay, even though the seller claimed they were WWII era. General Industries is the company name, but who knows who has the dies now, probably Alan Beckman in Chicago? Joe W. might know, he has some listed on eBay right now: 370162548495 or you can get 2 of the brass ones here: 180325679190 for 8.99!

 

Paul - you are correct and it two distinct patterns one for the TO and one for the L pilot. Now as for someone with the dies and stamping them out of brass I am not sure why they would.

 

I do not think anyone would mistake the silver finish to be silver plate over brass which was found both during WW2 and before. Additionally why strike so many brass TO wings since they are not going to make money in volume.

 

I bought these just to see them in hand... I agree with you on the date of the wings in that the finish appears to be some type of coating and feels very new.

 

John

 

EDIT - Can someone confirm for me that the TO wing was auth from 1942-1956. (THX)

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I've wondered about these for sometime myself. To my eye, they don't look too good. Here is one that I've had for several years and haven't seen another like it. It looks like a WWII AMICO wing in most respects, about the same weight, has some age on it and shows some wear. Anyone seen one of these? dunno.gif

post-3515-1235682117.jpg

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Paul S - Andrew Lipps thinks this is the General industires hallmark - check the link above. As you can see the makers mark on the back of the TO wing I posted has the diamond included as well so it is not the same.

 

John

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The line on the hallmark page I believe is wrong

"This hallmark is attributed to BELL TRADING POST aka GENERAL INSIGNIA Company."

 

Here is what I know. I did purchase a large quantity of these (both TO and Liaison wings with this hallmark) and if anyone is interested in one let me know. Here is what I was told. These were made in the sixties and never really sold. They were made for originally for what was believed to be a forthcoming government contract that never came and then sold to Army Navy stores and tons of them left in the warehouse. I was also told the original maker was in upstate NY and the factory was bought out converted to making toilets and sinks and then later burned down.

 

The dies went to someone in RI, I was unable to find out who yet, and they went out of business last year with lots of unfinished examples of the TO available as well as a number of other 2 inch wings such as command pilot but without any hallmark.

 

If I found out anymore I will let all of you know.

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All the guy who sold be the unfinished wings told me the following:

 

Hi, They were stamped in provenance, RI and were done in the 40s and 50s. They are old warehouse stock and that's about all I know. You can look them up on U.S. Military badges.com Jim

 

From this at least the RI locaion is the same only the dates are different. Question to you Joe on the 1960's reference... why make TO wings in the 60's if that rating was not used any longer..?

 

The mystery continues :)

 

John

 

EDIT - Joe what do you think about the satin finish on the TO wings I posted... nickel then silver plating?

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I've wondered about these for sometime myself. To my eye, they don't look too good. Here is one that I've had for several years and haven't seen another like it. It looks like a WWII AMICO wing in most respects, about the same weight, has some age on it and shows some wear. Anyone seen one of these? dunno.gif

 

Paul,

 

Yes, I had one of these, in the original box, marked General Industries, that I got from Russ Huff about 8 years ago. They are good, but I always though them to be post WWII . Mine was a pinback, unfortunately I don't have a back photo, but it was identical to yours

 

Paul

 

post-182-1236002107.jpg

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  • 3 weeks later...
John Cooper

Here is another pattern of wing I am sure some of you will find familar... The GI hallmark and raised sterling marks obscure a double sterling mark from what I can see under a close inspection which is odd.

 

Thoughts?

 

pilotl.jpg

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Now let me post the finished version. The finish is unknown to me except it is silver colored... I am interested to know the thoughts of others on the wing and the maker...

 

John

 

tofinished.jpg

Hi John the makers mark on your wing is the Williams & Anderson Co. a diamond with a curved line inside with a dot on each side of the line i have a box or a flat some where around here that has the name and logo on it. brian

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Hi John,

 

The TO wing was authorised from November 10 1941 and I have not ever seen a discontinuation date listed.

 

 

Gary

Paul - you are correct and it two distinct patterns one for the TO and one for the L pilot. Now as for someone with the dies and stamping them out of brass I am not sure why they would.

 

I do not think anyone would mistake the silver finish to be silver plate over brass which was found both during WW2 and before. Additionally why strike so many brass TO wings since they are not going to make money in volume.

 

I bought these just to see them in hand... I agree with you on the date of the wings in that the finish appears to be some type of coating and feels very new.

 

John

 

EDIT - Can someone confirm for me that the TO wing was auth from 1942-1956. (THX)

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FrankEaton01

brian e is correct, this hallmark was used by Williams & Anderson Co. I believe the "GI" stands for government inspected, which means the specifications have been approved by the Institute of Heraldry. Similar to the HLP-GI (His Lordship Products), SIMCO-GI (E.H. Simon Co.), etc. hallmarks.

 

1caf8034.jpg

 

46379a60.jpg

 

09014d2e.jpg

 

5565008d.jpg

 

d659ee26.jpg

 

0d7f5683.jpg

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John Cooper

Frank,

 

Thanks for posting this supporting information. Do you happen to know if the company is still in business and any other details?

 

Thanks

John

 

(EDIT) let me answer that question in part:

 

IOH code = W25

Location = provenance RI.

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I just found this:

 

General Insignia Corp.

626 Whittier St

Bronx, NY

 

Believed to be Post 1945. Does not pop up on any 1940-1945 war directories.

 

Anyone have any more ideas on this one.

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  • 3 months later...
316th FS 324th FG

Anyone know how long Williams & Anderson used this mark?

 

I picked up a Combat Medics badge and a 2nd Award CIB today (both 1/20 Silver filled) with this diamond and the GI mark.

 

Also picked up a pathfinder badge with the Lordship Industries LI GI mark with no other markings. What timeframe would that be from?

 

Thanks

 

Doug

 

brian e is correct, this hallmark was used by Williams & Anderson Co. I believe the "GI" stands for government inspected, which means the specifications have been approved by the Institute of Heraldry. Similar to the HLP-GI (His Lordship Products), SIMCO-GI (E.H. Simon Co.), etc. hallmarks.

 

1caf8034.jpg

 

46379a60.jpg

 

09014d2e.jpg

 

5565008d.jpg

 

d659ee26.jpg

 

0d7f5683.jpg

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FrankEaton01
Anyone know how long Williams & Anderson used this mark?

 

I picked up a Combat Medics badge and a 2nd Award CIB today (both 1/20 Silver filled) with this diamond and the GI mark.

 

Also picked up a pathfinder badge with the Lordship Industries LI GI mark with no other markings. What timeframe would that be from?

 

Thanks

 

Doug

 

Hi Doug,

 

In my experience, I've seen this Williams and Anderson Co. hallmark on medals in boxes with dates from the mid-1960's through the early 1980's. Being 1/20 silver filled instead of sterling, your CMB and CIB badges probably date from the late 1960's through the 1970's. The LI-GI marked pathfinder badge would date from the early 1970's (when HLP changed their name to LI) to the mid-1990's, when Lordship lost all of their government contracts over the backdoor MOH fiasco.

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316th FS 324th FG
Hi Doug,

 

In my experience, I've seen this Williams and Anderson Co. hallmark on medals in boxes with dates from the mid-1960's through the early 1980's. Being 1/20 silver filled instead of sterling, your CMB and CIB badges probably date from the late 1960's through the 1970's. The LI-GI marked pathfinder badge would date from the early 1970's (when HLP changed their name to LI) to the mid-1990's, when Lordship lost all of their government contracts over the backdoor MOH fiasco.

 

Thank you Frank - here are pics of the backs - http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...mp;#entry353352

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