USAAF or RAF ww2 Goggles ?

[Squale69]

Hello,

 

Could anyone tell me more about these Polaroid Goggles ?

Looks like manufactured in London U.K

ww2 era ?

 

Thanks. P.A

[warguy]

I would say yes, WWII vintage B8 goggle, British broad row stamped. Nice to have the box. 

[dmar836]

B-8 or M-1944?

[warguy]

Maybe the M-1944. Feel free to correct me! And Broad Arrow stamp (darn auto correct).

[dmar836]

Yeah, I think these are contracted M-1944s based on construction. The lack of chamois is obvious but the shape is wrong for the B-8. They look almost identical except for chamois until you put them side by side.

As for date, they appear post war to me just by the box. IIRC M-1944s are dated on the side adn were made at least into the 80s or so. I'll have to check.

Update: BTW, that property address was constructed in 1968 so...

Dave

[dmar836]

So, those are clues but certainly not definitive. Went down a rabbit hole for fun and this link shows the current building (presumably the one built in '68).

https://www.google.com/maps/place/186+Acton+Ln,+London+NW10+7NH,+UK/@51.5335305,-0.2617054,3a,90y,343.7h,88.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCpwIE1ZB0VAG-_5WAFkPUA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x487611eb0277c093:0x17e12b48dbe175a!8m2!3d51.5335784!4d-0.2618891

You can scroll to the sides and see buildings that are definitely older so another might have been there during the war.

This pic shows bomb hits in London during the Blitz. Located it and doesn't appear to be anything within a few hundred yards but who knows? The hospital area just southwest took a bunch of hits. Not sure if that was a hospital then.

 

 

Fun research! Okay, back to the goggles. M-44 goggles used to be everywhere. I would pass on them as they were often dated 1974, etc.

The molds are very similar but the B-8 has a nose piece. It is clear that the bridge is not simply cut off for the M-1944s but molded without it(has a very thin mold separation line there). So it's not just the chamois difference.

Here are some comparison pics:

Top two are B-8, Bottom is M-1944s('44 dated):

 

Here are the top markings. You judge if the word "Goggle" is there on those you show(looks like it to me) but it does appear to have a broad arrow. Also appears to have been sanded for some reason which is strange. All this could point to war surplus being repackaged and sold as civi goggles post-war. Remember, biking and surplus MkVIIs along with Stadium helmets has always been an iconic look in 50s and 60s Britain.

 

Here are the B-8s

 

At least on US made M-1944s the date is on the left side with "US" on the right side. I have seen much more recent dates than this. Have never seen dates on B-8s. Would be interested to see if the goggles in question have a date.

 

 

Didn't mean to get into a study on M-44s vs B-8s but it would be interesting to see if they were subcontracted to the UK during the war. Wouldn't have figured it but the markings are interesting for sure. Can you get more pics? For a date, maybe?

 

So, just not sure about the era of manufacture - I'm leaning towards UK made, wartime. Closer inspection shows they certainly lack the details of B-8s.

 

 

 

[warguy]

I for one am glad you went down this rabbit hole Dave. I have learned I have a pair of M-44’s in my collection I previously thought were B-8’s. I knew when I started this response I wasn't an expert on these, but thought I was safe…..I should have known better. I have learned a lot and appreciate your contributions. I will never look at these goggles the same again! Kevin

[dmar836]

Kevin, have you checked for the date? Curious.  I must have picked up the one pair just because the date was wartime.  

B-8s are not rare and are often found in the boxes with their replacement lenses. 

Dave

[warguy]

Hi Dave, yeah once again, I have learned a lot from this thread. Apparently I know a bit more about other styles of goggles. The dust on mine is reflective of how long they have been on a head when I should have been studying them. M-1944 for sure, and a 1945 date, and a USN mark! I have them on a Navy winter helmet but displayed with my AAF collection. I need to move it into my Marine room! 

[Squale69]

Hello !

 

Thank you all for your coments and this mass of information !

 

To complete I have one more picture I just did using water on the top erased markings.

 

Looks like  "GOGGLES FA MK2" then below Arrow sign followed by 220/1136 or something like that... typical U.K markings !

 

Let me know about your feelings...

Thanks P.A

 

 

 

[dmar836]

Certainly the broad arrow and the visible slash between numbers is British military. Curious if were there any dates or markings on the sides?

Might have to go to the sister sight to find those with more info on British gear. 
Dave

[Squale69]

No markings on the side Dave…

[pararaftanr2]

Gentlemen,

The subject goggles are post-war made in England and as stated on the box for dark-adaption with red lenses.

The first all rubber frame goggle of this general style issued to US forces in WW2 was the Polaroid 1065 goggle from 1943, used by both USAAF and USN as a flying goggle. The frame was chamois backed and the strap a combination fabric and elastic. As time progressed, the USAAF adopted these as their type B-8 goggle, virtually identical to the 1065, except for the markings on the top of the frame. The design of the "B-8" / 1065 was improved slightly, resulting in the M-1944 and these were used by both the USN as a flying goggle, by non-flying Navy personnel as the N-2 and by Army ground forces as their "M-1944". The nose flange on the prior 1065 / B-8 series was not removed; it was simply moved farther back on the frame so it no long protruded. If you compare the size of lenses from the M-1944 and the "B-8" you will find the M-1944 lens is larger, as is the opening of the frame. Army M-1944 goggles have no chamois backing and have an OD elastic strap. USN N-2 (M-1944) goggles have an OD or black elastic strap and are marked "USN" on the side. Naval aviation M-1944 flying goggles have a chamois backing, are marked USN on the side and have a combination gray elastic and gray fabric strap, or all elastic gray strap depending on if they were made in 1944, or 1945. To the best of my knowledge, the USAAF never used the M-1044 as a flying goggle in WW2.

[dmar836]

Interesting. Never saw an M-1944 marked set with chamois.

Would this box not have been civi? Seeing the military markings 220/ or whatever certainly implies military. Would they have been sanded and rebadged for civi use?

Dave

[Squale69]

Hello,

 

Here is what I got on a French forum :

22C/1136 Goggles, instruments, flying-practice, frame - Mk 2
with the English broad arrow !

These are RAF version of the US goggles, but Post-war as those used during ww2 stop at 22C/1126 (...1136 for the one I've got)

 

P.A