Question Dating N.S. Meyer Ribbons

[frank2far]

My apologies if this has already been discussed.

 

I have noticed some Meyer ribbons are copy protected 1964 and 1966. Can anyone date the 1966 variations based on the packing? Also, did the copyrights for the 1966 copyright dates extend beyond the 1960s? 

 

Thanks

 

 

[patches]

1963, 64 and 66 dates was when the cardboard design was copyrighted not the insignia., these Meyer Card packs were used well into the 70s

[frank2far]

 

Thanks. But would the style of the packing give an indication of when the ribbon was actually manufactured?

 

[patches]

10 hours ago, frank2far said:

 

Thanks. But would the style of the packing give an indication of when the ribbon was actually manufactured?

 

Not to our knowledge. the card board plastic sealed packages remained constant in their appearances way past those 60s dates. If the insignia is still sealed then the trick is with some of the insignia is to look for certain things, in example the subdued cloth insignia, if one recognizes these as being embroidered on OD Cotton Sateen, then you can date it from the late 60s to mid 70s, but if one recognizes it being on a ribbed OD cloth, then it will date past the mid 70s and on, this ribbed OD cloth being a Cotton Poly Blend.

 

 

[frank2far]

1 hour ago, patches said:

Not to our knowledge. the card board plastic sealed packages remained constant in their appearances way past those 60s dates. If the insignia is still sealed then the trick is with some of the insignia is to look for certain things, in example the subdued cloth insignia, if one recognizes these as being embroidered on OD Cotton Sateen, then you can date it from the late 60s to mid 70s, but if one recognizes it being on a ribbed OD cloth, then it will date past the mid 70s and on, this ribbed OD cloth being a Cotton Poly Blend.

 

 

 

Thank you. Could you provide examples of these types of cloth? It may be a good thread for collectors of NOS ribbons. Much appreciated

[patches]

46 minutes ago, frank2far said:

 

Thank you. Could you provide examples of these types of cloth? It may be a good thread for collectors of NOS ribbons. Much appreciated

Here's a perfect example, this on a late-sh 70s  early-sh 80swon tropical coat, the CIB is Cotton Sateen, and the Master Parachute Badge is Cotton Poly, note the more faded quality of the cotton CIB as opposed to the Blend Wings.

 

The whole thing revolved around the cloth the Standard Fatigues were made of then, in the 60s, made of OD Cotton Sateen, and the insignia, both the early color ones from the late 50s late 60s and the later Subdued ones we embroidered on this cloth then in the mid 70s the cloth was changed to the new Cotton Poly Perma Press clth in making Fatioues, thus the insignia was now embroidered on this type cloth.

[frank2far]

Many thanks for the example. However, how can this help identify the ribbon dating? Thanks

[patches]

On 7/2/2022 at 10:34 PM, frank2far said:

Many thanks for the example. However, how can this help identify the ribbon dating? Thanks

You asked and I quote.

 

Thank you. Could you provide examples of these types of cloth? It may be a good thread for collectors of NOS ribbons. Much appreciated

 

I provided examples of the Cloth 

 

As far as the ribbons go, they really could of been made anytime in the 60s into the 70s, their hallmarks on the ribbon slide plates will vary we think from the earlier Double Meyer Shields one of which will have the 22M in it, or the later plain M22 by itself.

 

Unit Crests their easier, pre 1974 will have the Double Meyer Shield 22M, after 1974 will have the Double Shield with MADE IN USA on them, but as with the ribbons, the whole thing involves ripping open these sealed packs to check, that being contingent on  seller letting you do it or him doing it for you to check before you buy it.

[frank2far]

Great. Thank you taking the time to respond. Also, you are correct, I did say cloth. I should have said the ribbon material. :)

 

Some are marked  N.S. Meyer on top and M-22 below, and one is N.S. Meyer on top with MC-782 below.

 

These are void of a double shield.

[Allan H.]

M-22 is an army marking for Meyer. MC-782 is a marine procurement number for Meyer.

 

I think you are going to have a very difficult time getting exact dates on ribbons, and you've already been told that you can't really count on the packaging to date them 100%. I know that on my own ribbon racks, that there would be subtle differences in the ribbons made by the same companies over time. Most ribbons will be stretched over a brass frame, but you will also find them stretched over aluminum frames. From the front, they don't look any different, but they will look different from the back.

 

Additionally, sometimes you might be in a situation where you are looking for a ribbon and one company didn't supply it, so you'll have ribbons on the same rack made by different companies, so you might have an Ira Green ribbon right next to a Meyer and maybe even a Vanguard elsewhere in the rack. The bottom line is that soldiers never paid attention to the makers, they just wanted their uniforms to look good.

Allan

[patches]

9 hours ago, Allan H. said:

M-22 is an army marking for Meyer. MC-782 is a marine procurement number for Meyer.

 

I think you are going to have a very difficult time getting exact dates on ribbons, and you've already been told that you can't really count on the packaging to date them 100%. I know that on my own ribbon racks, that there would be subtle differences in the ribbons made by the same companies over time. Most ribbons will be stretched over a brass frame, but you will also find them stretched over aluminum frames. From the front, they don't look any different, but they will look different from the back.

 

Additionally, sometimes you might be in a situation where you are looking for a ribbon and one company didn't supply it, so you'll have ribbons on the same rack made by different companies, so you might have an Ira Green ribbon right next to a Meyer and maybe even a Vanguard elsewhere in the rack. The bottom line is that soldiers never paid attention to the makers, they just wanted their uniforms to look good.

Allan

Yeah,  I got to check out the hallmarks on little rack on my Class A's I still have LOL, don't think I ever looked at that.