Early Marine Campaign Cover, Snowfkake Vent?- Looking For Info

[CHASEUSA11B]

Hello everyone, I just purchased what I believe to be a pre WW1 Marine campaign cover but I can’t find info on this particular type. It has an EGA and D 3 in brass collected attachments. The interior head band is missing and the vents appear to be a snowflake pattern? I am looking for opinions on whether or not it is authentic and that era it would be. Thanks for the help. 

[Dirk]

Recommend sending it back.  It looks a lot like a repop that’s out there….the snow flake pattern looks different then it should. The EGA is wrong as is the style of the Company Letter and brigade number. Wrong prongs for the EGA and the Letter/number combo.  I have seen this hat recently on Facebook and did not like it. Here is an original 1889 pattern snowflake pattern hat 

[CHASEUSA11B]

Perfect, thanks for the info 

[Dirk]

Here is a Star Pattern EGA from a Marine who was in the Philippines from 1900-1901. The Marines used a variety of styles of campaign hats, but sadly none match the  style you show.

[warguy]

I have studied these hats a bit and agree with Dirk. There were a number of private purchase hats in this period, and my guess is yours is one of those. 

[CHASEUSA11B]

That’s a nice one. 
 

do you recall where on Facebook you saw this one? I bought it from a dealer on Facebook. His listing said “I know nothing about this cover.” 
im curious if he was told it was a repro or honestly didn’t know. 

[Dirk]

Can you PM me with the name of the dealer 

[Dirk]

Here it is from a Facebook site 

[CHASEUSA11B]

Wow! Removed the liner and cord. Thanks for the info 

[CHASEUSA11B]

Confirming the EGA is reproduction?

I removed it and this, or a different EGA has been there awhile it seems with the imprint. There is a Chinese coin in between the hat and the backing. 

[Dirk]

No, the EGA is good…WWI…however, the Chinese coin could have been added at anytime…and given the efforts to bling the hat out I suspect it was dealer/collector added. The Letter/numbers are good…just not sure if they are Marine style/correct size and the prongs on them are wrong. And as you noted the sweat band and the officers cord was “recently” removed. BTW here are two examples for the correct EGAs for very early campaign hats

[warguy]

Great detective work Dirk. 

[Dirk]

Kevin thanks! I thought I recognized that hat.

[CHASEUSA11B]

I contacted the seller and asked him if he removed the sweat band or had previously owned the hat. 
his only response was “It’s a different one.”

I looked it over again to prove it’s the same. When I did do I noticed the hat with the sweat band appears to have holes for the chin strap. Mine does not. The crown also looks slightly different and the position of the EGA is a little lower, but that could just be the angle of the pics. 

[Dirk]

This photo below is the hat I saw posted…in the image I am not seeing the chin strap access holes on it (granted such holes are hard to see in photos). But normally the access holes normally would have a felt/fur ring surrounding  them and stick out a bit from the ribbon around the base. In addition, the fact that there are two D 3 field hats out there in the collecting community raises an “unit over-abundance” issue…..at that time only the Philippines had two brigades (the six brigades from China Service were quickly disbanded…not being around long enough to acquire lettering/numbers)….as a result unsure a 3rd brigade existed in the early 1900’s (although I could be wrong from the early banana wars)…..I would walk way from this one….just to many red flags

[CHASEUSA11B]

the fact that there are two D 3 field hats out there in the collecting community raises an “unit over-abundance” issue…..
 

 

i agree 100%. I think this is put together, I’m just not sure now if it’s the same one as previously posted.

The side profile pic is the same as the one I posted with the vent holes. The additional pics are from Todd. 

I’m gonna see what I can do about a refund but this makes it more difficult as the seller said “I know nothing about this cover”

If it was the same I could prove he did know something- as he previously sold it. In this case he can claim ignorance. 
 

I appreciate your help and knowledge.

[Dirk]

I will give the seller the benefit of doubt in that when he posted on Facebook he was looking for opinions. Several folks liked it, but the ones that weighed in negatively imho carry much weight in their understanding of Marine good pieces….until I got serious in studying these I thought when I first saw it “cool hat”, but now I know better. Hoping your successful in getting a refund!

 

Lastly, here is a photo of the standard snowflake pattern vents...they don’t show up well in period portraits 

[CHASEUSA11B]

Thanks again

 

for the sake of clarity and the post. I did not buy this from Todd Baran. He is 100% honest.

 

I bought this from a dealer on Facebook who happens to be the same seller that sold Todd his. Definitely not a good sign 

[Dirk]

Glad to hear it! I thought Todd was just looking for answers….it’s the guy who bought it from him who is suspect

[CHASEUSA11B]

Seller AJ Burak responded very unprofessionally and hostile to my post on this on the Facebook site. I would definitely not recommend doing business with him. 

[Dirk]

Chase I am sorry it turned out to be an unpleasant experience….the seller’s behavior is known to a number of collectors…..hopefully you will eventually find a good example of this field hat for your collection. 

[CHASEUSA11B]

Thanks Dirk! Not a huge loss for me, more of the principle. I can find a use for it. 

[Leatherneck72]

Great thread, educational. 

 

[JasperCollins]

On 6/5/2022 at 1:35 PM, Dirk said:

I will give the seller the benefit of doubt in that when he posted on Facebook he was looking for opinions. Several folks liked it, but the ones that weighed in negatively imho carry much weight in their understanding of Marine good pieces….until I got serious in studying these I thought when I first saw it “cool hat”, but now I know better. Hoping your successful in getting a refund!

 

Lastly, here is a photo of the standard snowflake pattern vents...they don’t show up well in period portraits 

Great photo. Thanks! Any idea if there's a photo out there with a ruler held up to the snowflake pattern so I can get an accurate sizing of it?

I'm trying to modify a hat in order to get a decent impression of a solider from the 1890s. I've got a good hat that resembles the color and dimensions and I have a ribbon to put on it. I'm going to sew the brim with three lines of stitching. The only thing  holding me up is getting the snowflake pattern correct.