U.S. Indian Wars 7th Cavalry M-1881 Blue Cloth Spiked Pith Helmet Complete with Dress Plume & Cords

[Ludo]

Good morning everyone!  Wondering if anyone can answer a question for me on the cords in the attached pics?  I just picked up a 7th cav pith helmet to add to the collection (M-1881) and can’t find any photo references yet on how the cords were worn. Right now they are tied in a bundle, as you can see, but I have no idea how they were actually worn.  Did they loop around the helmet in some fashion and then banged for a few inches.  Seem to be awfully long to untie and just let hang as they are.  Just started searching but haven’t found anything referencing the cords specifically. 
Tom G

[Allan H.]

They button to the front of the tunic.

 

Allan

[Woodymyster]

they go around the neck, over the shoulder, around the front, and dangle on the front buttons.

[Ludo]

Thanks, all, for the info; especially the illustration!  I can honestly say I haven’t seen that setup before.  So until I get the coat and a mannequin they stay banded apparently.  Thanks again for the quick responses!

[ludwigh1980]

They are a pain in the arse to wear especially if you want to wear full dress without the helmet. Officer's and NCO's would have a detachable hook installed so the cord and paddles could be worn in place and the helmet detached and held or sat down. Nice helmet by the way. The cord looks to be original which are rare to find. Most helmets you see have replica's installed. 

[Ludo]

Thanks for the extra info!  Would make sense … your description of the hook.  First thing I started wondering about when I found out they were attached to the coat, having to undo the cords every time.  Any pointers on references I can get to to see details on that? I’d imagine there’s got to be some books/sites somewhere out there.  Honestly I should problem search the forum first I guess…. 
thanks again!

[Ludo]

Regarding the cords, I thought they looked original too but I am a total novice to this period so I don’t trust my judgement.  Appreciate the second opinion.  

[Woodymyster]

If you can show me a close up of the waffle part of your cords and of the helmet braid, I might be able to answer your question about being original.  I can also send pics of the hooks later tonight.

 

[Ludo]

Woody, pics attached. 

[Woodymyster]

When it comes to 1881 enlisted cords, it was easy to differentiate between originals and the cheaper made reproductions.  However, there is a more sophisticated reproduction out there that is harder to spot.  The first thing I do is look at the waffles.  Keep in mind that original cords are made out of worsted mohair.  The waffle is made of 3 strands of cord with the center cord twisted.  All of the cheaper reproductions will not have this twisted center strand.  Please see the pics below.  The second pic is of a original cavalry above a reproduction cavalry.  Checking for this twist is something easy to do when all you have are pictures and can not inspect the items in person. 

When dealing with the more sophisticated repro, I study the material and construction of the cord.  Most reproductions are not made of worsted mohair, and instead use cotton and wool.  Worsted Mohair is a unique texture and one could differentiate by touch.  The Mohair is very stiff and holds it shape well, however, the cotton wool reproductions are soft and understandably flexible. 

 

The two cords on originals usually measure around .175 inches where as the reproductions tend to be thicker in diameter.  The 1887 Quartermaster Specifications #188 stated that cords from the helmet attach point to the ends of the tassels measured 5 feet 8 inches.

 

Keep in mind that the three strand cord used on the helmet became tightly knit after about 1884.  Also, in 1887 the cavalry switched from a lime yellow color to a darker orange yellow.  This was in response to the early lime yellow cords and plumes would fade too much in the sun.  That being said, almost all cavalry cords seen today are of the later, tightly knit royal yellow (orange tint) cords.  Please see the third pic of 2 original cavalry cords.  You can see the royal yellow and tight knit that I speak of.  Most reproductions simply use a standard yellow as opposed to either the lime or royal yellow used by the Army.  In your 1st post, it is very easy to see the royal yellow I mentioned above on your plume. 

[Woodymyster]

As far as using hooks, the original cord was issued as a single unit.  You would see officer cords with a hook attachment.  It is obvious that some enlistedmen took the lead from the officer cords and cut their own cords at the helmet.  I have seen many different types of attachment, but since almost all enlisted helmets in private collections are most likely built from original parts by collectors in the 1900s, it is hard to differentiate a hook setup done in the field vs done by a collector.  The first pictures show officer setups (the book picture is from Gordon Chappell's Brass Spikes and Horsetail Plumes). 

 

In my collection, I have seen uncut cords, cut cords sewn back together and to the helmet, multiple bra hook like attachments, and simple bronze and copper handmade hooks.  I have provided a few pics below.  One thing of note, is that most people who attach cords to helmets do not do so correctly.  First, most people are not aware of the unique way the cord is knotted onto the scroll and ring, and if they are, they almost thread the cord thru the keyring.  The problem with using the keyring is that the ring material is not spring steel and therefore will not go back to its original shape after the cord is passed thru the slit.  This is very noticeable to those who have studied these helmets.  I would quess many collectors from over the years would cut the cords to ease the instillation of these cords without ruining the ring attached to the scroll. 

 

[Woodymyster]

another hook picture

 

[Ludo]

Thanks for the info, Woody.  It looks like I have a lot going on with this headgear.  The plume looks certainly doesn't match the cording with it being a more orange yellow color.  Based on the pics you attached above the waffle appears to be a repro from what I can see.  I haven't looked too closely at the hook system, so I will have to do that and see how it's attached.  Looks like the cord is a tighter weave which, if I'm reading your info correctly, would date this as a later period helmet ... if in fact it is an original cord, and I have some doubts about that; mainly due to the lack of twist I am seeing in the center cord of the waffle.  Am I off in that assumption?

[KurtA]

Woodymyster-

Thanks for taking the time to post  that excellent information.

I learned a lot.   
 

perhaps a moderator could move this thread to the Indian Wars section?

[Dirk]

Excellent thread….moved per Kurt’s suggestion 

[Woodymyster]

1 hour ago, Ludo said:

Thanks for the info, Woody.  It looks like I have a lot going on with this headgear.  The plume looks certainly doesn't match the cording with it being a more orange yellow color.  Based on the pics you attached above the waffle appears to be a repro from what I can see.  I haven't looked too closely at the hook system, so I will have to do that and see how it's attached.  Looks like the cord is a tighter weave which, if I'm reading your info correctly, would date this as a later period helmet ... if in fact it is an original cord, and I have some doubts about that; mainly due to the lack of twist I am seeing in the center cord of the waffle.  Am I off in that assumption?

In the past, I was very careful to never be associated with reproduction parts.  I felt this way with most of my collecting areas, especially Indian war headgear.  I would then be very critical of other's collections.  Over the years, however, Ive had to relax my stance on what others used for their 1881 helmets.  I mean we can all agree that most helmets were assembled in the 50s, 60's and 70's.  The original cord is the most difficult item to locate next to a real chinstrap, and the cord really transforms these helmets visually.  If the repro cord works for you, then I say keep it.  I would install it correctly on the scroll and ring (from your pictures, I cant tell if they are on the ring correctly or not).  Having the cord on the ring correctly, makes the helmet look very prim and proper.  My issue with repro cords is usually they are off in color and they tend to be very obviously new by being very bright.  For me, it is very distracting. 

 

As far as your hook, you may not have one.  Your cord may be a single unit like they were intended.  Are you saying they are already separated?  The plume is that later style, and most likely a never used plume with a 1902 contract date, hence its vibrant new look.  If you are okay with the plume and cord, then leave it and enjoy.  One of my cavalry helmets has mismatched cords/plume.  It has an older Lime yellow plume with an original royal yellow cord.  For me, I like the lime yellow plume as they are hard to find.  I have left it alone as it used to be Joe Poyer's hat.  If you collect guns, you may be familiar with Poyer's many books and he had his  publishing company called North Cape publications.  He published Mark Kasal's book "A guide book to US Army dress helmets 1872-1904".  And on page 38 is my helmet.  I have left it alone as that is how it is in the book, even though I have teased Mark on how he captions it as having the later royal yellow plume when it does not. 

 

 

[Ludo]

It’s interesting you mention the relaxed stance as I have done the same with my other collection pieces over the years, mostly because of the cost of some original pieces.  If I go with a repro for anything I like to do some research and get the highest quality I can (ie WWII uniforms) and add as much original items as I can.  Same with headgear.  I have original helmets and some that have been “refurbished” that look the part.  
i am going to leave the helmet as is I think.  I enjoy the look of it and have always wanted one of them.  Would I be happier if it was ALL original?  Absolutely.  But it brings me joy to add to the collection regardless, so why not?

I do collect guns as well and have pieces from 1730 to WWII … but I have not heard of Joe Poyer or Mark’a book, but I am certainly intrigued enough to find a copy now.  I have an original 7th Cav Kepi and that was the first foray into the Indian wars era for me other than the firearm I have.  That was when I decided I needed to add the pith helmet.  I am going down the rabbit hole now!   Thanks for the reference, and all the knowledge.  Much appreciated!

[AZPhil]

Nice helmet Ludo. 

It's a Great example. You don't need to add to it. 

I see yours has the chin strap. I found out when I posted mine that a major plus!

 

Woodymyster,

Thank you for that lesson on cords. Fantastic visual information on the waffle make up.

 

May I ask for a clear photo of how the cords go through the rings on the left side. It has a lot going on and I'm trying to figure out what I need to do to add one. 

 

Semper Fi 

Phil

[Ludo]

AZPhil,

I will certainly defer to Woody but this is how my cords are attached to the rings.  Woody… correct attachment?

regarding the chin strap, yes I found out I got lucky with that as well.  I bought blindly i. The sense I really didn’t do enough research to know what to look for.  This one just spoke to me for some reason.  At least I am finding out what to look for on the next purchase.  This is a great forum for that!

[Woodymyster]

As far as the attaching the cord to the ring and scroll, it is done before the scroll is attached to the helmet using a cow hitch knot.  I mentioned earlier that when you place the cord thru the ring like you would a key, it permanently stretches out the ring which can be seen in your pictures above.  The hitch knot uses up the single cord between the front and back portion of the cord.  This creates a nice tight mount to the helmet. 

 

The last pic of the Indian Scout helmet shows the permanently bent ring, something I always try to avoid if I can.

 

 

[AZPhil]

Thank you very much Gentlemen!

Excellent photo's. 

 I think I got it.

 

Mine came without the scrolls and since it is circa 1950's-70's. I have purchased some scrolls/with rings for S&S firearms to mount to my helmet.

 So looking at the photo's and reading what  Woodymyster said, it would be best to use the cow hitch while they are not mounted to the helmet, Then once hitched, mount to the helmet.

 

 Is that correct?

 

Semper Fi

Phil

[Woodymyster]

Thats how I would do it.

[AZPhil]

Thank you Sir!!!!

 

Semper Fi 

Phil

[1st Sgt CES]

Once again I  learned something from the forum---- thanks for all the information

[Cwnavy1]

Here are two original pics, one of an 1872 full dress rig, and the other an 1881 affair.  Both have disconnected helmet cords but you cannot see the snap hook for attachment, but I'm sure they are in place.