Bsquirrely Posted February 21, 2009 Share #1 Posted February 21, 2009 Here is a Photo of the Fifth Army Tenth Mountain division Ski patrol. Notice that the soldier on the right has a ammunition belt made from a pistol belt with multiple carbine ammo pouches for his Garand clips. Us Fifth Army In Italy Two members of the Amer. 10th Mountain Div. Army ski patrol, on the Italian front in the Appennine Mountains. Location: Italy Date taken: April 1945 Photographer: Margaret Bourke-White Size: 1012 x 1280 pixels (14.1 x 17.8 inches) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted February 21, 2009 Share #2 Posted February 21, 2009 I would guess he was using a standard web trouser or pistol belt and slid the pouches over it.The FA kit appears to be hanging from the bottom of one of the pouches.I have seen carbine pouches where the center is opned up and the its wider to accept the garand en-bloc clips RON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobrahistorian Posted February 21, 2009 Share #3 Posted February 21, 2009 Those are the late-war "either/or" pouches that could accept either an M1 Carbine mag or a Garand clip. Used to have a full pistol belt of those myself! Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDC Posted March 18, 2009 Share #4 Posted March 18, 2009 Without commenting on the equipment pictured I'm wondering if the original picture is wrongly dated, or was perhaps staged. It's been my understanding that the 10th engaged in only a couple patrols on skis when they arrived in Italy, the Feb. time frame, and not again thereafter. Also, by April they would have been ready to break out into the Po Valley. I've never seen any snow in pictures of their operating area at that time (Castel d'Aiano. Tole, Montepastore, etc.), in which case the overwhites would stick out like a sore thumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolman Posted March 18, 2009 Share #5 Posted March 18, 2009 Without commenting on the equipment pictured I'm wondering if the original picture is wrongly dated, or was perhaps staged. It's been my understanding that the 10th engaged in only a couple patrols on skis when they arrived in Italy, the Feb. time frame, and not again thereafter. Also, by April they would have been ready to break out into the Po Valley. I've never seen any snow in pictures of their operating area at that time (Castel d'Aiano. Tole, Montepastore, etc.), in which case the overwhites would stick out like a sore thumb. i have a feeling that the pic is not staged...the GIs using standard equipment for the era and i cant see anything strange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artu44 Posted March 19, 2009 Share #6 Posted March 19, 2009 I think the date is correct (cause in the gothic line mountains war ended on april 23-24 with no snow at all) but pic is posed. Photographer asked guys (with their relaxed faces as war was over) to wear their combat gears for a nice magazine cover pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDC Posted March 19, 2009 Share #7 Posted March 19, 2009 I think the date is correct (cause in the gothic line mountains war ended on april 23-24 with no snow at all) but pic is posed. Photographer asked guys (with their relaxed faces as war was over) to wear their combat gears for a nice magazine cover pic. I think you are right about this being posed, a much better choice of words than my use of "staged". I've since asked a couple 10th Mtn veterans who were very clear that by April no one was wearing the parka white side out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_pickrall Posted March 19, 2009 Share #8 Posted March 19, 2009 These photos of multiple magazine pockets on the pistol belt appear in Shelby Stanton's book on the Uniforms of World War 2. The idea was tested at Ft Lee Quartermaster Center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolman Posted March 19, 2009 Share #9 Posted March 19, 2009 i have seen several pictures were the carbine pouches used for garand clips in the italian front & in operation varsity-the idea not remained just an idea but tested in real combat several times with good results i think...but for some reason during & after the war the M23 garand belt remained as standard...the carbine pouch was okay for the garand job but it did'nt offer a desicive advandage over the M23 belt...you cannot squeeze on a pistol belt more than 5 carbine pouches so again the carring capacity is the same as the M23 belt...okay...if you are a fat guy you can add another one carbine pouch on the belt...just two more clips...not a big deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artu44 Posted March 19, 2009 Share #10 Posted March 19, 2009 But you can ad a pistol holster and a .45 mag pouch. You can't do it with a dismounted M1923. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolman Posted March 19, 2009 Share #11 Posted March 19, 2009 But you can ad a pistol holster and a .45 mag pouch. You can't do it with a dismounted M1923. yes! correct...the carbine pouche concept is a lil bit more adapteable than the M23 & gives you more freedom as to were you prefer to put every piece of equipment according to your specific needs but still not a really big difference so after the war the idea dropped-you can still hang a pistol holster to the M23 belt & you can use a garand clip pocket for colt pistol mags with no problem.. the weird thing is that the M23 belt is a terribly complicated & expensive belt to make...you need at least 300 steps!!! during a M23 manufacturing process while the carbine pocket is an easy thing to make... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainofthe7th Posted March 19, 2009 Share #12 Posted March 19, 2009 But you can ad a pistol holster and a .45 mag pouch. You can't do it with a dismounted M1923. I wish I could find the picture to back up my statement here, but I've seen before where a soldier has put a .45 mag pouch over an empty pocket on the standard cartridge belt. I've tried it, and it works. However, due to the fact that I know of only one picture and I can't find it, the practice obviously wasn't done often. Just another reason to never say never! Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpl. Cleaver Posted March 19, 2009 Share #13 Posted March 19, 2009 Rob, I know the photo you are talking about, the 2 GI's patting down 2 Germans right? But I think it was a Carbine pouch, not a .45 sorry, I don't have a scan of it. Tyler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainofthe7th Posted March 19, 2009 Share #14 Posted March 19, 2009 To be honest I don't remember at all...I know it was a .45 pouch though. I just recall because I took a mental note that it was an unusual idea. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolman Posted March 19, 2009 Share #15 Posted March 19, 2009 To be honest I don't remember at all...I know it was a .45 pouch though. I just recall because I took a mental note that it was an unusual idea. Rob we need to think the nature of the war-in a war you go to die...you think of your mother father family friends & the sweetheart...you dont give a dam for the regulations or the proper appearance of your webb equipment...anything is possible in a war...every possible combination...remember..the soldiers are not collectors & that's the 1st time in their life that wearing web equipments the colt pouch maybe here or there or to the back of the belt or anywere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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