Automatics in use during WWII - Whose, What, and When?

[stratasfan]

Rather basic, but this is something I have wondered about for years! Hoping some of you firearms enthusiasts can help me! My question . . . 

 

What automatic handguns were used/issued in WWII? Were the majority of handguns used by Armed Forces in WWII revolvers or Automatic pistols? Were there some Countries that used them sooner/more often than others? Looking for a bit of history/overview/specs, really. 

 

Thanks!

Elizabeth

[kwill]

Elizabeth,

 

The vast majority of handguns used in WWII, by all the major powers, were autos, not revolvers.  Standard issue in the U.S. was the M1911A1, of course, but thousands of Victory Model S&W and Colt Commandos (both revolvers) were also issued.  Colt Pocket Hammerless Automatic pistols in .32 ACP and .380 ACP were used as well.  

 

The standard issue pistols for Germany were the P.08 Luger and the P38 Walther but they used all kind of other auto pistols.  Not many revolvers.  Japan had the Nambu.  

 

This barely scratches the surface but there are lots of good reference books available.

[digi-shots]

Kwill covered quite a bit… many of the allied countries also used US weapons under the Lend Lease policy.

 

Here is a Russian semi-auto pistol used during WWII (also up and through Vietnam)

TT-33 Tokarev

[kwill]

Oh, thanks, Linda.  I forgot about the Russians.

 

BTW, autos didn't start in WWII.  U.S. used the M1911 and Germans used the P.08 in WWI.  

[digi-shots]

- There’s also some similar to the 1911a1…Inglis or Browning Hi Power (Canada) and Ballester Molina (Argentina)

 

- Mauser C96 Broomhandle (German WWI, also used by Churchill) and later used by Chinese (Chinese Civil War) and also fighting Japanese in WWII.  China also made their own Shanxi “broomhandle” clone in .45 cal.

 

- Italy used the Beretta, a couple of models

 

- Spain had the Ruby

 

- Germany also used the Mauser, and also the Ortgies (Hiltler gave one to Eva Braun)

 

-Japan had the Nambu (grandpapa, papa, and baby Nambu)

 

-Sweden & Finland both used the Lahti 

 

(I worked in a shop and probably handled dozens of the above and more I can’t think of offhand)

 

 

[stratasfan]

Thanks, All! This is very interesting! Just the sort of thing I've been wondering about for years! (And again, my knowledge of handguns is very basic.) I know that the US had automatics and the Germans and the Japanese. However . . . am I correct in thinking that the British didn't? 

 

@kwill - Question about the US revolvers you mentioned as being used - Were they used for specific branch/group or just issued as needed? 

 

I know from reading and movies and things that the Luger is sort of iconic . . .why? Was it because of the different look and the amount of Bring-Backs by US GIs? I know a lot of guns were brought as souvenirs. Or was the Luger a better gun as far as actually using it? 

 

Would the American automatics be "blue nosed"?  

 

Also, would the American automatics have been made by a particular gun manufacturer, or did multiple places receive contracts?

[Marchville1918]

we don't want to forget about the British and their Webley revolvers. they also used S&W revolvers purchased from the US.  Also there were the Colt and S&W model 1917 revolvers left over from WW1 which were used again in WW2.

In addition to their own autos the Germans used autos made in the various captured countries such as the Belgian Browning Hi Power, the Polish Radom.

The Luger was iconic like you said but I believe that the P38 was a more reliable combat handgun and was made in much greater numbers during WW2. they stopped making the Luger in 1942.

[kwill]

You're asking for simple answers and the information is easily obtained but far too voluminous to post.  I don't know what "blue nosed" means.  The S&W Victory revolver was used primarily by the Navy and USMC for their aviators.  The M1917 revolver was primarily used stateside.  The M1911A1 was made by Colt, Remington Rand, Ithaca, Union Switch & Signal and Singer (only 500).  During WWI Remington UMC and Springfield Armory also made M1911 pistols.  The British used lots of American guns that that either purchased before the Lend-Lease Act or were "borrowed" after L-L was passed.  They also used their own Webley and Enfield revolvers.  

[USMC_COLLECTOR]

Excuse the question, but when it is a colt automatic 1911, is the pistol still semiautomatic?

[Blacksmith]

6 minutes ago, USMC_COLLECTOR said:

Excuse the question, but when it is a colt automatic 1911, is the pistol still semiautomatic?

Fair question, as folks use the terms interchangeably - and maybe shouldn’t.  
 

Also, the usage of “automatic” and “semi-automatic” has changed in its application over time - including in modern times for reasons that I won’t get into.

One differential application is a firearm that ‘automatically’ reloads, versus use having to do with how rounds are discharged in relation to trigger actuation.
 

A properly-functioning 1911 should fire one round each time the trigger is pulled.  I would call this “semi-automatic”.

 

I’d wager there is some colloquial application, but I reserve “automatic” for those firearms that continue to discharge rounds as long as the trigger is depressed; or, the firearm depletes its ammunition source.  These would be Class-III NFA examples to me.

 

 

[stratasfan]

Oh. I understand it can be voluminous. To be honest, the internet is dwindling as far as good information and to really find details, you have to know what to ask. Kind of like not knowing how to spell a word and someone tells you go look it up in the dictionary. To look it up, you have to know how to spell it. ;)

 

"Blue Nosed" . . . neither do I, but it is a classic term for automatics. I assume it is something to do with the metal or something, but it is iconic as far as automatics back in the 20s-40s. At least in the non-military ring, so I assume it is something.

 

Thanks for the info about the companies. I know Colt and Remington, but those others are new to me! Super interesting! Also interesting about "automatic" and "semi-automatic"! Never really thought of that.

[kwill]

Can you cite a reference for the Blue Nosed term?  In 50 years of collecting I have never heard it.  The automatic vs. semi-automatic debate is long-standing but the fact is that Colt named their pistols "Automatic."  

[e19]

Pistols of WWII

https://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/ww2-military-pistols.php

[e19]

Blue Nosed….

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/54845/a-blue-nosed-automatic

 

I never heard of the term, but then I’ve never read Agatha Christi!

 

 

[USMC_COLLECTOR]

Awesome, thanks for the info. I shoot guns a lot, and yet I've never quite been sure what that "automatic" meant.

6 hours ago, Blacksmith said:

Fair question, as folks use the terms interchangeably - and maybe shouldn’t.  
 

Also, the usage of “automatic” and “semi-automatic” has changed in its application over time - including in modern times for reasons that I won’t get into.

One differential application is a firearm that ‘automatically’ reloads, versus use having to do with how rounds are discharged in relation to trigger actuation.
 

A properly-functioning 1911 should fire one round each time the trigger is pulled.  I would call this “semi-automatic”.

 

I’d wager there is some colloquial application, but I reserve “automatic” for those firearms that continue to discharge rounds as long as the trigger is depressed; or, the firearm depletes its ammunition source.  These would be Class-III NFA examples to me.

 

 

 

[digi-shots]

I always liked the term “auto loader”.. seems to make more sense to me, even though I refer to them as a “semi-auto” and never “automatic”.  As for “auto”, I call them “full auto” so there’s no misunderstanding and worthy of a $200 Tax Stamp.

 

Even more interesting or confusing is the ammo term “ACP”… “Auto Colt Pistol”.  Savage Arms didn’t like to promote Colt and therefore had their own “SAP” ammo “Savage Auto Pistol” (I believe it came in .32 and .380 for smaller commercial pistols).

 

Savage also manufactured a model 1911 during WWI.  A fellow I know has his grandfather’s from WWI.

There were also quite a few commercial WWI era semi-auto’s that were still being used during WWII… used but probably not issued.  For example, the British Webley Self-Loading Pistol.  

 

Pistols are semi auto handguns (they reload every time the trigger is pulled and the slide goes back and basically reloads another round).… and Revolvers, also a handgun, revolve!😀  the trigger is pulled and the cylinder revolves or advances another round.

 

Question… what about Humphrey Bogart’s Webley-Fosbery? (actually, I think they call it a self cocking Automatic Revolver).

 

Kevin.. I’ve never heard the term “blue-nosed” either!  Maybe they were referring to the nice fire bluing on early Colts?  I haven’t been collecting for 50 years, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn and have read just about every Agatha Christie book.

[kwill]

I think a non-gun writer confused the term and meant "snub-nosed."  I hate that term but many people use it, or "snubby," when referring to a short barreled revolver.

 

[stratasfan]

Funny thing about Blue-Nosed . . . Christie stories, Gangster movies from the golden era . . . they always say Blue-Nosed! that's so funny that it isn't a term. I guess. Sorry I can't shrae more, but that's where I know it from - gangster stories, movies, and Christie!

[stratasfan]

Semi-Auto versus Auto is so interesting! This is something that kind of flitted into my mind at points, but I never knew exactly why. I do know that Revolvers are called that because of the revolving cartridge. So, I guess Automatic Loading does describe it! 

 

Two other questions . . . were Berettas only Italian or did they export? Also, anyone heard of a Schmeisser (I think I spelled that correctly, but I read about it in a book and always wanted to know what origin it would have had).

[ccyooper]

Here is another “automatic” pistol that was issued during WWII.  

[digi-shots]

Berettas are Italian… US Military was using them (post WWII)  up until recently 2017?,  model m9 

 

Schmeiser (sp?) .. full auto German MP40 (machine pistol)

[digi-shots]

2 hours ago, ccyooper said:

Here is another “automatic” pistol that was issued during WWII.  

Sometimes the original boxes are harder to find than the pistol

[ccyooper]

Yes it is 

[e19]

3 hours ago, ccyooper said:

Here is another “automatic” pistol that was issued during WWII.  

They were still in use (Suppressed)) by SF and CIA in Nam.

[kwill]

Gotta love those HS!