American Civil War Cartridge Boxes

[Your local M1 Garand]

I decided I should make this for anybody who would like to ask questions and show off there civil war cartridge boxes. I actually have a few questions myself. Since I’m getting into American Civil War reenacting. First, what are the dimensions of a .58 cal and a .69 cal cartridge box, as the one I have (reproduction) looks to be a .69 cal but I don’t know as that’s my only one and I don’t have another one to compare it with. And, were brown cartridge boxes used at all? Any help is appreciated!

[mdk0911]

Hello - he is what I have found out and in my notes and these are for .58 cal

M1855 Civil War Era cartridge box - The boxes measure 8" x 7" x 2.25"

M1861 - Civil War Era cartridge box - The boxes measure 8" x 7" x 2.25".

 

yes - brown was used - I did have one (attached pictures) and kicking myself in the A-- for selling it !!!!!

 

[mdk0911]

he is a picture with the M1855 (black) and the M1861 (brown)

 

[Your local M1 Garand]

The reasons I need to know the dimensions of the cartridge boxes because I have my own, which is a reproduction, and I was wondering what model it was. I think it’s a 69 cal m1855 or m1861 but I’m not sure. It has rivets on the belt loops and it’s black. Here are some photos:

[Your local M1 Garand]

9 hours ago, mdk0911 said:

he is a picture with the M1855 (black) and the M1861 (brown)

 

Thanks for the information!

[mdk0911]

your welcome -

I have an original .58 bullet and the measurements are 2.5 inches long by 5/8 inch wide and you should be able to fit 10 into one tin box.

  here is a link for cartridge boxes

https://www.libertyrifles.org/research/uniforms-equipment/us-cartridge-boxes/

[Your local M1 Garand]

Thanks for that article!

[mdk0911]

1 hour ago, Your local M1 Garand said:

Thanks for that article!

sure - glad i could help

[Your local M1 Garand]

On the article there was something about there being same model boxes but for different calibers but there were nothing saying differences between them, maybe I am missing something? 

[Your local M1 Garand]

8 hours ago, mdk0911 said:

sure - glad i could help

By the way, the original brown cartridge box you showed me look way more black then I thought, most of the time I see reproduction cartridge boxes in completely brown and russet colors but I have never see a original in that shade, was it actually used? This is the color I’m talking about:  

 (I wanted to get this cartridge box shown but I wanted to make sure it was historically accurate)

[mdk0911]

the dark brown box was used

[Your local M1 Garand]

Thanks!

[illinigander]

For a very good reference on this topic try:  "Civil War Cartridges Boxes of the Union Infantryman"  by Paul D. Johnson.  It is published by Mowbray.

illinigander

[Slobo]

Question about cartridge box slings -- photos suggest these did not always have the round plate.  Were these non-regulation for Federal infantry? Was this a common variant?

[MAW]

10 hours ago, Slobo said:

Question about cartridge box slings -- photos suggest these did not always have the round plate.  Were these non-regulation for Federal infantry? Was this a common variant?

The plate is purely decorative.  Some times issued and worn, other times not.  

[Slobo]

22 minutes ago, MAW said:

The plate is purely decorative.  Some times issued and worn, other times not.  

Thanks MAW. Anyone know if the 2 holes for the plate's tabs were punched in the sling as issued or did the recipient do this when he had a plate to attach?

[manifestdestiny]

The box plate on the cartridge box itself was a weight and helped keep the outer flap of the cartridge box from curling up on itself. Wet or damp powder at this time would have been a major issue in battle.

 

It is my understanding that the eagle breast plate would have been issued with the cartridge box sling (even the m1864 cartridge box). I don't know if anyone has tried it, but attaching a plate to the box or sling with that little strip of leather is a complete pain.

I tend to believe that the archeological records of these plates being found many campsites, etc give credence to the fact that many soldiers simply removed them for whatever reason or that the leather strip that held them in place failed rather often.

 

Although there are numerous examples of brown/russet confederate accoutrements--with the  Houston depot cartridge box being perhaps the best example-- some of the dyes used in the dying process have faded from black to brown over time. Apparently the use of tannins from hemlock bark in the dying process rather than the normal oak tannins produced a dye that was more susceptible to fading. 

 

Here is a fairly detailed post about the leather dying process used during the Civil War:

https://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/military-forums/authenticity-forums/13527-for-all-you-military-culture-leather-nerds-like-us

 

 

[MAW]

1 hour ago, Slobo said:

Thanks MAW. Anyone know if the 2 holes for the plate's tabs were punched in the sling as issued or did the recipient do this when he had a plate to attach?

They have to be hand punched...it isn't done at an arsenal/prefab style.

[manifestdestiny]

I do agree that it wouldn't necessarily be done at the arsenal. I wonder if it happened at the regimental or company level or by whoever had access to leather tools. I just can't imagine it happening routinely on an individual basis.

[iron bender]

First off, what, illinigander said, get this book. It gives great detail on cartridge boxes and the stringent requirements of the US War Dept during the war. It's easy to say they used what was at hand and whatever got gear in the field quickly. Not correct. This book covers, through original documentation, how accoutrements were procured and were sent to arsenals. Including quanities by manufacturer and inspector. It also details rejected items. Essentially these manufacturers made belts, cap boxes, bayonet scabbards, shoulder slings for the cartridge boxes, and rifle musket slings. The book also has a great ID guide for the boxes...

[iron bender]

For the op's original question, about dimensions, I dug out a couple boxes to show the clear difference between a .58 and .69 box. The .69 is the 2nd pattern (July) of 64 on the right. The .58 is the earlier box on left with plate. It's clear the difference. I took a couple stitching pics too to show how perfect the stitching was. This is one of the ways this leather gear was accepted. All of these details and arguments between manufacturers and arsenals are present in the book above. I have lots of late 70's -early 90's Jarnagin boxes that pass the original test all day long, until you get into stitching detail and exact dimensions. These two original boxes are exact to the specifications in the book. It's almost crazy how good the gear and guns they made without cnc was during this time period. An individual perfecting a craft

 

...also a pic showing the size difference of the shoulder belt buckle between the 64 boxes and earlier boxes

[iron bender]

Also pictured is the button closure (finial) difference between an early box and a late box. The 64's had a tear drop shaped finial while early had the 'round' finial

[iron bender]

If anyone has a late 60's early 70's converted box for 50-70 I'd love to see it (and maybe buy it), specifically the 64 box that's been chopped

[Backtheattack]

Thank`s all for posting, great informations.