digi-shots Posted March 15, 2022 Share #1 Posted March 15, 2022 Is there a way to determine the manufacturer of a Silver Star based on its construction, thickness, etc? This one came in the short case (Navy/USMC). Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhcoleterracina Posted March 15, 2022 Share #2 Posted March 15, 2022 That's a full wrap US Navy USMC SS. The ribbon looks fresh while the medal looks worn. Re-ribboned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digi-shots Posted March 15, 2022 Author Share #3 Posted March 15, 2022 I don’t know.. it does look fresh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
268th C.A. Posted March 15, 2022 Share #4 Posted March 15, 2022 I agree...looks like a new ribbon too me. suspect too me. The full broach looks older than the star too me....JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted March 15, 2022 Share #5 Posted March 15, 2022 The brooch is correct for the planchette, but the ribbon looks like it could be replaced. Keep in mind that USN SS planchettes are gilded sterling silver. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digi-shots Posted March 15, 2022 Author Share #6 Posted March 15, 2022 I got the medal, case and ribbons in trade about 10 years ago from a fellow collector. I could ask if they replaced the ribbon or if they got it like this. Could it be that the coating on the medal is just scratched off making it look older than the ribbon? I was thinking of listing this for sale… any idea of current value? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted March 16, 2022 Share #7 Posted March 16, 2022 Original style box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGAZ Posted March 16, 2022 Share #8 Posted March 16, 2022 On 3/15/2022 at 10:13 AM, digi-shots said: Is there a way to determine the manufacturer of a Silver Star based on its construction, thickness, etc? A bit, there is some data I have but it is incomplete. In Tom Niers 'The Numbered Silver Star Medals of the US Army in the World War II Era', Table 2, he provides the following data on the first 3 Silver Star contracts that were all numbered (almost) to 118,889. However, the numbering was dropped and additional orders were placed for the SS with 3 additional companies but there's no measurements listed for those. There is another Silver Star thread that discusses some of these other SS manufacturers with pictures, as there was a side by side but I can't find it. With these following images, you might be able to extrapolate a little bit of data, but by not knowing the other dimensions it's a crap shoot, unless someone chimes in with those. Final note, I don't understand where to rest the micrometer edges on the wreath on the face of the Silver Star to get the Thickness Across measurement in the table below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digi-shots Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share #9 Posted March 17, 2022 37 minutes ago, TGAZ said: A bit, there is some data I have but it is incomplete. In Tom Niers 'The Numbered Silver Star Medals of the US Army in the World War II Era', Table 2, he provides the following data on the first 3 Silver Star contracts that were all numbered (almost) to 118,889. However, the numbering was dropped and additional orders were placed for the SS with 3 additional companies but there's no measurements listed for those. There is another Silver Star thread that discusses some of these other SS manufacturers with pictures, as there was a side by side but I can't find it. With these following images, you might be able to extrapolate a little bit of data, but by not knowing the other dimensions it's a crap shoot, unless someone chimes in with those. Final note, I don't understand where to rest the micrometer edges on the wreath on the face of the Silver Star to get the Thickness Across measurement in the table below. Thanks everyone for their comments and help. TGAZ, thank you for your additional info. The medal I posted is not numbered so I’m not sure the chart will help…. But I do happen to have another SS that is numbered so maybe I can figure out the manufacturer and then compare the measurements. Here is the the other SS that is numbered. It’s slotted, so based on the chart I’m thinking its made by Charles Robbins Co.? Looks like the only company that made a slotted brooch AND numbered the medal is Robbins. (I probably should have started a new thread). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGAZ Posted March 17, 2022 Share #10 Posted March 17, 2022 For your un-numbered Silver Star, found the thread: As for numbered, it doesn't look to be on the list, but medal #80118 is listed to a Bernhard J. Cahill, 1 Div, N. Africa, 1942, KIA. Rabbit hole thread pull: Depending on your research skillz, there's a chance, a slight chance, like a sliver of a tiny chance, that the SS# is on the citation. If you can find Cahill's citation via NARA, then you have the General Order, you can ask the Air Force Archives to give you the entire GO issuance, and you can look page by page to see if you can find anything in there. There's a slight chance that they sent a batch of medals together in this range. There were some SS in the early part of the war, in N. Africa that the numbers did get entered into the citation. Unicorns yes, but they do exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digi-shots Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share #11 Posted March 17, 2022 TGAZ.. thanks for the additional info… I’ll see what I can do… the numbers are not that far apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digi-shots Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share #12 Posted March 17, 2022 I did find that Cahill was a Private with the 18th Inf, 1st Div.. - Med Det, Anti Tank Co. (might be Co I) and arrived in Tunisia Jan 25, 1943 and was KIA on Feb. 19, 1943. Not sure about finding General Order but if both SSM went to same unit…I may have a starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGAZ Posted March 17, 2022 Share #13 Posted March 17, 2022 1 hour ago, digi-shots said: I did find that Cahill was a Private with the 18th Inf, 1st Div.. - Med Det, Anti Tank Co. (might be Co I) and arrived in Tunisia Jan 25, 1943 and was KIA on Feb. 19, 1943. Not sure about finding General Order but if both SSM went to same unit…I may have a starting point. They didn't give out the SS that way, and it's probably more of a long shot thinking that an entire sequence of SS went to the same unit in order like that. But, if you have the time, both methods would start narrowing it down. The method I suggested is how I find citations of awards. There's a great DIY here on how to find citation info in NARA for Cahall, having that GO# puts you closer in the date of issuance then his unit (again assuming so many Silver Stars went out exactly at the time he got his...note that the US issued over 75,000 Silver Stars in World War II alone...). You can then ask the Army for the full GO and go through it. Again the chances are slim, I think it was Army Air Force early war N. Africa that had a bunch of SS# on the actual citation. Sometimes when you pull the thread there's nothing there, but sometimes there's a little nugget of info that's still all wrapped up in a bunch of lint... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digi-shots Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share #14 Posted March 17, 2022 TGAZ, thanks.. I wasn’t sure how SSM’s were given out. I’ve never had the opportunity to research them. Here is a bit more for SSM #80118 recipient CAHILL.. date of action (KIA) was 19 Feb 1943, General Orders number 15, HQ, 1st Infantry Division - 7 April 1943. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGAZ Posted March 20, 2022 Share #15 Posted March 20, 2022 This is really a needle in the haystack, but you can ask the History Hub (HH) folks to find the file. If there's a more elegant way to search for General Orders (GO) I'm all ears, but this is how I do it, and they're quite helpful. https://historyhub.history.gov/community/military-records/army-and-air-force-records I just submit a request in the forum that I'm looking for all of the file of General Order #15, Headquarters, 1st Infantry Division, April 7, 1943. But that you'd like the entire pdf/file, rather than a specific section in that GO. They'll point you in the direction of where it is. The file will probably be several hundred pages long, but with a weekend afternoon and your favorite sports game on in the background, skimming through it, once you see/understand the military format of the GO, then it'll make searching that much easier. There will be many award citations in there, the format is identical, what you're looking for is for citations that have the Silver Star # included on them. I can't recall (off the top of my head) where I've seen an example of where the # will be on the citation (it'll come later)... but you'll know it once you see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGAZ Posted March 20, 2022 Share #16 Posted March 20, 2022 Going to pull on this a bit more since we're discussing sizes/dimensions. What are the reference points on the SS wreath that are used in Nier's book? I've looked at all the examples and tried different modes and even moving the numbers around but no luck. My measuring instruments are accurate. Using Table #2 in post #8 above as reference: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digi-shots Posted March 20, 2022 Author Share #17 Posted March 20, 2022 TGAZ, thanks.. I wasn’t sure how SSM’s were given out. I’ve never had the opportunity to research them. Here is a bit more for SSM #80118 recipient CAHILL.. date of action (KIA) was 19 Feb 1943, General Orders number 15, HQ, 1st Infantry Division - 7 April 1943. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digi-shots Posted March 20, 2022 Author Share #18 Posted March 20, 2022 TGAZ.. are you measuring the width of just the leaves on the wreath… or measuring from the backside to the frontside thickness of the actual medal, not including the star. Here is the total thickness of the medal, excluding the star (for the numbered SSM). I think the measurements fall in line with a slotted medal for tje Robbins manufacturer…. The other two companies are a tad thinner. I took another measurement.. trying to be careful not to scratch the medal.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGAZ Posted March 21, 2022 Share #19 Posted March 21, 2022 🤦♂️ Thanks. I was measuring width and not thickness. Sometimes it's the little things that trip us up lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digi-shots Posted March 21, 2022 Author Share #20 Posted March 21, 2022 That’s ok… the length of the numbers was given in mm and the thickness in inches…. At first I kept checking the thickness in mm and couldn’t figure why is was so far off… then realized it and converted into inches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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