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Help with this WW2 Camouflaged captains helmet possible MTO / PTO


ArchangelDM
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ArchangelDM

I recently picked this captains helmet and have been anxiously awaiting it’s arrival, today it finally arrived. 
As I’m not a huge ETO-MTO collector as my focus is PTO I went out on a limb with it due to the Camouflage paint it’s been painted in. It has almost a Japanese look to it with what I would class as a dead grass brown, nearly the same as the Japanese shade of brown. 

Underneath that paint there is a pacific/southern France green camouflage, as the brown had started to come off and flake, it can be seen in spots underneath. 
Now in the listing I never saw the liner but it stated it was also painted in that Brown, and so it was, there was also an identical matching captains bars in silver. 
 

Inside the name his name is written Twice 

 

J E LARIMER

 

One in block stencils, the other hand painted in black paint. 
 

The helmet is an early Fixed bail and the liner is an early capac with unpainted A washers, the leather is nearly all gone from the headband and has been somewhere hot in my opinion, it shows some good honest use. 
 

The chinstraps also exhibit honest use with discolouration throughout. 
 

So here is the question on the paint scheme, has anyone ever seen this type of brown used for the invasion of Italy, or would this be a PTO type of helmet with Japanese paint being used ? 
 

Ive added a 1000% magnification photos of the helmet paint and the captains bars. In hand I could not see the micro cracking of the silver, but under magnification you can see it cracking and splitting up. 
 

On the helmet I’ve taken pics of the stress cracks and you can see the brown paint has been on it before the stress cracks as there is no paint in the split. Also you can see the 3 layers of Paint, original, green, Brown and then the rust spots coming from all 3. So this paint has clearly been in this an extremely  long time for rust to penetrate so many layers. 
 

On the Liner also where it is cracked you can see no paint in the crack, also proving the paint was on it before the crack.  
 

For me this is an interesting lid, I found one J E LARIMER and I hope someone can crack the name here. There was only 7 listed that I could find ! 

I know captains are difficult to get any info on

 

Looking forward to your opinions 

 

- Dean 

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ArchangelDM

Now some 1000% magnification shots 

 

these shots are from The helmet, there is even a small spot of navy blue on it. 
This shows the various layers on it, with wear and tear you can see all 3 layers. 
included is the stress crack with no paint in it just rusted  8C034C3D-A3D6-4F36-8F8A-D46F5561E7EA.jpeg.b12ade49846609424a706dbaddb87736.jpeg

 

 

01D7109C-E695-484C-82EE-26C30085AABA.jpeg

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00CEFA10-796C-4B87-AFFD-9C2E09196FC0.jpeg

D82DF2D5-B1E4-4401-94B7-55B3284E56C0.jpeg

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ArchangelDM

Next the helmets captains bars 

The rust bleed is clearly coming through, also where the indents and scratches are there is no paint in them 

95A341DC-478F-4540-818A-CFD3FE625721.jpeg

6708BA26-D919-4CF5-ADFB-9694161F0118.jpeg

5D4D2AB7-AEEB-4ADF-BBCE-B2FA5BBDF137.jpeg

9B906102-EAE3-4B5E-826A-20EDA258EBC3.jpeg

3D83F2DA-351C-4BD5-BC9E-E319B02D5F43.jpeg

F8CB97ED-9A80-4C5F-BC23-D83EBBC02EAD.jpeg

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ArchangelDM

Now for the liner 

As can be seen the paint is coming away, revealing the layers of paint. This has also micro cracking in it, looks to also have quite a bit of age as it’s also discoloured. 

 

 

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81CA1760-60CC-4AEA-9F3B-E416D4CBEE13.jpeg

4E17DF8F-DC62-4F7D-A004-03C1129209E6.jpeg

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CavalryCombatant

I really like this one, dean, whatever theater it’s from! 
 

As for your guy, I don’t think that’s him.  Looks like Edward was enlisted during the war, unless he got a field commission later on I don’t think it fits.  

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ArchangelDM
2 minutes ago, CavalryCombatant said:

I really like this one, dean, whatever theater it’s from! 
 

As for your guy, I don’t think that’s him.  Looks like Edward was enlisted during the war, unless he got a field commission later on I don’t think it fits.  


Thanks Cavalry C 

 

would appreciate any help finding him from the members here 

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ArchangelDM
1 hour ago, mdk0911 said:

super nice M1 - well done!! - the camo is a one looker


Thanks MDK I appreciate the comment 

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FT.Monmouth1943

Nice helmet! I would try looking at Navy/USMC rosters given the style of rank fits that better than the army captains rank. It also looks like there is some traces of blue navy paint on the shell. Best of luck with the research!

 

- Jakob

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ArchangelDM
9 minutes ago, FT.Monmouth1943 said:

Nice helmet! I would try looking at Navy/USMC rosters given the style of rank fits that better than the army captains rank. It also looks like there is some traces of blue navy paint on the shell. Best of luck with the research!

 

- Jakob


Great shout Jakob

 Would make sense seeing the Japanese dead grass looking brown paint, it’s nearly identical !

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Blueprint

Nice lid Dean! It perfectly blends into your collection. 

 

In my opinion it could be either theater. But I would rather tend more to MTO/Africa as I saw them there more commonly. It’s hard to determine for sure and the mixture of colorshemes gets me thinking. 
 

I tried looking for him on WW2 Registry and findagrave. But no match yet.

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ArchangelDM
23 minutes ago, Blueprint said:

Nice lid Dean! It perfectly blends into your collection. 

 

In my opinion it could be either theater. But I would rather tend more to MTO/Africa as I saw them there more commonly. It’s hard to determine for sure and the mixture of colorshemes gets me thinking. 
 

I tried looking for him on WW2 Registry and findagrave. But no match yet.


Thanks Hannes 

I am also on the side of MTO but also possible PTO due to paint. I’m sure someone on here has a helmet used in the Italy campaign this color 

 

 

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ArchangelDM
14 minutes ago, elh1311 said:

Incredible lid. Good luck getting information. 


Thanks ELH

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ArchangelDM
9 hours ago, Raddock said:

Sweet! the rest of your collection looks great too


Thanks Raddock

i was trying to show a pacific brown on the right and an MTO camouflaged helmet left of shot for color reference. 

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ArchangelDM

Looking forward to hearing from more MTO collectors on the possible Italian invasion paint job. 

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TsrorsT

Holy moly-

I love the closeups! I haven't seen a lot of them, the microcracking on the liner's bars is amazing. The stress fracture is also very impressive.

As for the helmet, you got a real good one. I personally have never seen a light brown M1, and gotta say: I'm loving it! 🥳
 

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ArchangelDM
11 hours ago, TsrorsT said:

Holy moly-

I love the closeups! I haven't seen a lot of them, the microcracking on the liner's bars is amazing. The stress fracture is also very impressive.

As for the helmet, you got a real good one. I personally have never seen a light brown M1, and gotta say: I'm loving it! 🥳
 


Thanks for the kind comments 

 

- Dean 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Paddyd00

What a great Helmet Dean. If you ever sell no joke let me know. I love this one. I shy away from US Camo helmets. Many real examples around but I just always associated Camos w German Lids in my head. Also some of the pseudo science authenticating that people do bothers me but your analyses and breakdowns all make sense when I read them w CU pictures to Match. Of the real examples I think you own half of them.
 

Any period pics do we know of Brown Helms? 
 

Awesome set! This should be at top of the list. 
 

well done

Z

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I have no idea which theatre of operations this helmet was used in, but one thing is for sure...it definitnately appears to belong in your collection!👍

Very Nice!

94C61097-03D7-4210-B787-8612C968BC85.jpeg.2a087d9e35f6dac1745e1ab300282d9a(1).jpg

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ArchangelDM
10 hours ago, Dave T said:

I have no idea which theatre of operations this helmet was used in, but one thing is for sure...it definitnately appears to belong in your collection!👍

Very Nice!

94C61097-03D7-4210-B787-8612C968BC85.jpeg.2a087d9e35f6dac1745e1ab300282d9a(1).jpg


Thanks Dave 

it sits well in the sea of brown and frog skin 

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