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Post-WWII McCord heat stamps


etomilitaria
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etomilitaria

Hi all,

Is there information available on how to distinguish McCord heat stamps from the 1951-1958 and 1965 contracts (NOT WWII). I have two with heat stamps:

M-189 A
M 307 B

Are these both from the 1950s contracts? If so, what do McCord 1965 heat stamps look like?

Is there some sort of chart available with heat stamps and production dates?

Many thanks in advance!

All the best,
Rob.

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There's no chart that I know of and really, there's only some speculation. Someone posted on here not too long ago and he seemed to have a great deal of knowledge about the post-war McCord contracts. 

 

As far as I can theorize, the lower numbers denote an earlier contract, "A" being the 50's contracts, "B" being the 1965 one. 

 

Again, a theory on my part. 

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etomilitaria
22 minutes ago, elh1311 said:

There's no chart that I know of and really, there's only some speculation. Someone posted on here not too long ago and he seemed to have a great deal of knowledge about the post-war McCord contracts. 

 

As far as I can theorize, the lower numbers denote an earlier contract, "A" being the 50's contracts, "B" being the 1965 one. 

 

Again, a theory on my part. 

Thanks for replying @elh1311. Yes I think I have seen some similar information posted by @twthmoses. I was not sure if this at the stage of theory or if it was based on some evidence / archive material. It is definitely a subject that warrants more research. Appreciate your input.

 

Is the theory then that 'M' prefixed post-WWII McCord shells ending with an 'A' are the 1950s contracts because they are more abundant than the smaller 1965 contract shells...and not to put it too simply but that 'A' comes before 'B'?

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The letters represent steel lift numbers as received by the pressing concern. 

 

A steel makers "Heat of Steel" was normally too big to be sheeted and shipped all at once. They made the heat, cut the ingot into lifts, then sheeted the lift and made discs to be shipped to the pressing concern on pallets of roughly 2000 discs each. The actual steel makers heat and lift numbers had too many digits to be pressed into a helmet so the pressing concern assigned a "lot" number to each "heat of steel" number and a letter of the alphabet to each "lift" of that heat, in the order the lifts were received.

 

M-189 A would be McCord (as the pressing concern) 189 is McCords "lot number" assigned to the steel makers heat of steel number and the letter A means the helmet was pressed from the first "lift" of helmet discs received under lot number 189.


M 307 B represents the second lift of helmet discs received under McCord lot number 307

 

McCord Corporation was contracted to make M-1 helmets from 1951-1958. McCord did not make helmets in 1965.

 

Ingersol was contracted in 1965 to make the M-1 helmet. The Helmet was made to the same specification as the 1951 - 1958 contract. The basic change was in the chin straps where hardware parts were made from brass, instead of steel painted green,  and the flat end clip changed from rounded ends to squared off ends.

 

Ingersol "lot" stamps begin with the letter "I", which often looks like a number one (1), followed by a series of numbers. I haven't looked into how steel was received by pressing concerns as late as the 1960s so I am not able to comment on how the lot numbers correlated to the steel's heat numbers on these late contracts.

 

Hope this helps

 

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etomilitaria
1 hour ago, Pepper said:

The letters represent steel lift numbers as received by the pressing concern. 

 

A steel makers "Heat of Steel" was normally too big to be sheeted and shipped all at once. They made the heat, cut the ingot into lifts, then sheeted the lift and made discs to be shipped to the pressing concern on pallets of roughly 2000 discs each. The actual steel makers heat and lift numbers had too many digits to be pressed into a helmet so the pressing concern assigned a "lot" number to each "heat of steel" number and a letter of the alphabet to each "lift" of that heat, in the order the lifts were received.

 

M-189 A would be McCord (as the pressing concern) 189 is McCords "lot number" assigned to the steel makers heat of steel number and the letter A means the helmet was pressed from the first "lift" of helmet discs received under lot number 189.


M 307 B represents the second lift of helmet discs received under McCord lot number 307

 

McCord Corporation was contracted to make M-1 helmets from 1951-1958. McCord did not make helmets in 1965.

 

Ingersol was contracted in 1965 to make the M-1 helmet. The Helmet was made to the same specification as the 1951 - 1958 contract. The basic change was in the chin straps where hardware parts were made from brass, instead of steel painted green,  and the flat end clip changed from rounded ends to squared off ends.

 

Ingersol "lot" stamps begin with the letter "I", which often looks like a number one (1), followed by a series of numbers. I haven't looked into how steel was received by pressing concerns as late as the 1960s so I am not able to comment on how the lot numbers correlated to the steel's heat numbers on these late contracts.

 

Hope this helps

 

Hi @Pepper- thank you for coming in on the discussion and appreciate your input. McCord was awarded a contract on the 30th of April 1965 for the production of 325,000 helmet bodies. This is outlined in Mark Reynosa Post-World War II M-1 Helmets book on p. 76.

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etomilitaria

What triggered this line of thought for me was a response I received in another group:

 

The 189 stamp, which should read “M-189A” is from McCords December 1952 contract (production began in march-April 1953). The 307 stamp, which should read “M 307 B” is from McCords may 1965 contract (production began aug 1965). 

 

I am not sure if @twthmosescan shed more light on this? I'd really like to learn more about any research being carried out about post-WWII M-1s.

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Ah, you are correct on Reynosa, I always forget McCord's last contract in light of Ingersol's involvement. You will have to forgive me as I am old and forget stuff :)

 

I have no idea how much this will help or confuse the issue but, the problem becomes how big each heat was? 

The Alpha character is only representative of the lift in the order McCord would have received them. Although we know that lifts during WWII were around 2000 discs each, I have never seen any indication if this count holds true during post war contracts.

 

If lift size remained the same it is entirely possible that lot 307 could be that late in the game. The letter "B", however, will have no direct correlation to when the helmet was pressed or which contract it may have been associated with.

 

If you are attempting identify a McCord helmet representative of each contract I believe the answer, in the absence of finding documents, would by analyzing the chin straps. The earlier contract having metal parts made of steel painted green with rounded ends on the flat end clip and the latter contract with buckles and parts made of brass and squared ended flat end clip.

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8 hours ago, Pepper said:

Ah, you are correct on Reynosa, I always forget McCord's last contract in light of Ingersol's involvement. You will have to forgive me as I am old and forget stuff :)

 

I have no idea how much this will help or confuse the issue but, the problem becomes how big each heat was? 

The Alpha character is only representative of the lift in the order McCord would have received them. Although we know that lifts during WWII were around 2000 discs each, I have never seen any indication if this count holds true during post war contracts.

 

If lift size remained the same it is entirely possible that lot 307 could be that late in the game. The letter "B", however, will have no direct correlation to when the helmet was pressed or which contract it may have been associated with.

 

If you are attempting identify a McCord helmet representative of each contract I believe the answer, in the absence of finding documents, would by analyzing the chin straps. The earlier contract having metal parts made of steel painted green with rounded ends on the flat end clip and the latter contract with buckles and parts made of brass and squared ended flat end clip.

You've been great at expounding upon this little touched on subject and it's very appreciated. 

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etomilitaria
On 3/16/2022 at 4:16 PM, Pepper said:

Ah, you are correct on Reynosa, I always forget McCord's last contract in light of Ingersol's involvement. You will have to forgive me as I am old and forget stuff :)

 

I have no idea how much this will help or confuse the issue but, the problem becomes how big each heat was? 

The Alpha character is only representative of the lift in the order McCord would have received them. Although we know that lifts during WWII were around 2000 discs each, I have never seen any indication if this count holds true during post war contracts.

 

If lift size remained the same it is entirely possible that lot 307 could be that late in the game. The letter "B", however, will have no direct correlation to when the helmet was pressed or which contract it may have been associated with.

 

If you are attempting identify a McCord helmet representative of each contract I believe the answer, in the absence of finding documents, would by analyzing the chin straps. The earlier contract having metal parts made of steel painted green with rounded ends on the flat end clip and the latter contract with buckles and parts made of brass and squared ended flat end clip.

Thank you again @Pepper. Unfortunately the shell marked 'M 307 B' has been chromed and the chinstraps have been replaced. Appreciate you sharing your knowledge here though. I find it so interesting how much of a minefield the post-WWII M-1 helmets are. So hard to find general consensus on a number of topics. The hunt and research will continue!

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Hi Guys

If it’s any help I have a McCord with the heat lot number M325B, when I acquired it it was fitted with black steel chinstrap attachments and buckle and if my memory serves me well (it presently has a cover on it) the shell was finished in a light green shade.

could this be from the 65 contract?
 

 

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etomilitaria
11 hours ago, Theriddler said:

Hi Guys

If it’s any help I have a McCord with the heat lot number M325B, when I acquired it it was fitted with black steel chinstrap attachments and buckle and if my memory serves me well (it presently has a cover on it) the shell was finished in a light green shade.

could this be from the 65 contract?
 

 

Be good to see some pics of the stamp at the very least. Cheers!

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Here's one that I have. McCord with heat stamp M 325 B. 

 

Factory paint and texture inside and out with green hardware paratrooper chinstraps. Interesting because I thought the green hardware was phased out by 1958 or so. 

 

The whole helmet, including chinstraps, is in almost unused condition. There is some light wear and rust from where the liner has been sitting but that's about it. Like it was issued and then sat on a shelf. 

 

The liner is a 1951 CAPAC paratrooper liner with a 1953 dated sweatband. The liner seems to have had much more service use. 

20220318_074651.jpg

20220318_074724.jpg

20220318_074738~2.jpg

20220318_074700~2.jpg

20220318_074855~2.jpg

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etomilitaria
6 minutes ago, elh1311 said:

Here's one that I have. McCord with heat stamp M 325 B. 

 

Factory paint and texture inside and out with green hardware paratrooper chinstraps. Interesting because I thought the green hardware was phased out by 1958 or so. 

 

The whole helmet, including chinstraps, is in almost unused condition. There is some light wear and rust from where the liner has been sitting but that's about it. Like it was issued and then sat on a shelf. 

 

The liner is a 1951 CAPAC paratrooper liner with a 1953 dated sweatband. The liner seems to have had much more service use. 

20220318_074651.jpg

20220318_074724.jpg

20220318_074738~2.jpg

20220318_074700~2.jpg

20220318_074855~2.jpg

@elh1311-  can you share a picture of the bail attachment too? These show some differences with the post-WWII McCords. 

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Another one with a very faint heat stamp, M-186 with no letter following (that I can tell). Also in virtually unissued condition. Paint and texture are factory original. 

 

Standard green metal chinstraps in like new condition. Interesting to note, the paint on this helmet is a bit darker than the M 325 B helmet. 

20220318_080142~2.jpg

20220318_080153~2.jpg

20220318_080204~2.jpg

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etomilitaria
12 minutes ago, elh1311 said:

Another one with a very faint heat stamp, M-186 with no letter following (that I can tell). Also in virtually unissued condition. Paint and texture are factory original. 

 

Standard green metal chinstraps in like new condition. Interesting to note, the paint on this helmet is a bit darker than the M 325 B helmet. 

20220318_080142~2.jpg

20220318_080153~2.jpg

20220318_080204~2.jpg

@elh1311- fantastic to see! Again could we see a pic of the heat stamp and bail loop attachment on the shell?

 

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Hi Guys

As promised here is my McCord Heat Lot number M325B. When I got it I thought the black chinstrap attachments and buckle weren’t original so I replaced them with the same type but painted green. I’ve attached a picture of the original hardware.

FEB943CA-8A39-47B1-9CEF-C2D2DE4CDE4C.jpeg

7BB70216-5704-4D73-BCCA-1DCB2288AE90.png

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etomilitaria

Thank you @Theriddler! Great to see. Even more fantastic to see both your shell and the one posted by @elh1311share the same heat stamp (M 325 B)! Looks like you were right to swap out the black hardware as the one that @elh1311posted has the original green hardware in place.

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etomilitaria

@Theriddler - could you post a picture of the bail loop attachment on the shell for the one with the heat stamp M 169 A. A picture of the heat stamp would be good too.

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