Ultra Rare US 40mm Hotchkiss Revolving Cannon Flanking Defense Cannister Shot

[utica3]

Hello,

 

I recently purchased what I believe is an extremely rare 40mm Hotchkiss revolving cannon cartridge. I looked on the internet and I can only find one other example of this type of cartridge. It has an intact primer and is heavy. The cannister part does not come out of the casing either. 

 

I took this information from Hotchkiss cannon reference for the canister shot:

 

The case is made of tinned iron, and the front end is closed by a conical zinc cup ; the base, on which rests a wrought-iron disc, consists of a lead cup cast to the body; its form causes it to be expanded by the force of the charge, and to thus close the windage. The balls are made of lead and antimony and are packed in sawdust. There are 24 balls in each canister shot. Canister shot is seldom used for anything other than flanking purposes

 

The bottom of the cartridge casing is marked Winchester RA Co New Haven CT USA. It also has small symbol that looks like crossed cannons???

The canister portion of the cartridge has what I think is AM.O Co?

 

I don't not know the manufacture date. 

 

[Brian Keith]

Very nice shell! Yes, the "crossed Cannons" is the US Army Ordnance mark-meaning it was a US Army contracted product. Nothing like a 40mm shotgun! Just a quick caution, it may still have the propelling charge, so handle with care.

BKW 

[utica3]

Thanks for your comment and information regarding the crossed cannons symbol BKW. I'm handling it like a baby!

 

Eric

 

[illinigander]

The A. M. C. is American Ordnance Company.  They also made 1.65" Hotchkiss Mountain Guns.  What makes you think this cartridge is 40mm and not 37mm?  I think 37mm is more likely.  By the way- most all the Indian casualties suffered at Wounded Knee were caused by a US Artillery unit (the 5th I think) firing 1.65" cannister rounds, of which I think yours is an example.

illinigander

[dave peifer]

i agree............1.65 cannister round.....................dave

[utica3]

Dave and illinigander thanks for the information/clarification. I don't know anything about Hotchkiss revolving cannon rounds. I saw this Hotchkiss cannon round on an online auction. It was only listed as a pre WWI Hotchkiss cannon round. Nothing else. I have a IW and SAW artillery collection so I decided to research it before I bid on it. The only other example of a Hotchkiss canister round I could find on the internet was identified as a 40mm round. I also down loaded an old book (1879) describing the Hotchkiss revolving cannon. It had information on the 37mm, 40mm, 47mm and 53mm cartridge systems. It only listed a 40mm canister shot for flanking defense. For the 37mm it listed steel and grooved under band rounds. No canister was referenced for the 37mm. These are the reasons I thought it was a 40mm round.

 

When this round arrived at my house it had a tag on as a 1.65 Hotchkiss cannon round. I figured if I posted it on this forum the experts would set me straight. .

 

Eric

[illinigander]

1.65" Hotchkiss Mountain Gun.  Displayed is the "Ready Rounds" holder that is placed on one of the mules when action is expected.  L to R:

  Nose Fused HS: WINCHESTER R.A. Co. NEW HAVEN CT. U.S.A. 1/2 half of Ordnance Dept. stamp.

  Nose Fused HS: FRANKFORD ARSENAL  Tinned Case.

  Cannister Round. HS: WINCHESTER R.A. Co. NEW HAVEN CT. U.S.A.

The Holder is marked: ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL  E.H.S. [Emil H. Schmitten]  c. 1900-1910 (?)

This piece is for quick use to establish the gun.  The normal rounds are carried in a  container that is a round, tall corrugated container in which the rounds are mounted vertically in nests of 11.  (It reminds one of the old Igloo cooler).  It should be noted that the Hotchkiss who manufactured these mountain guns, is not related to the Hotchkiss who invented the Hotchkiss projectile of CW fame and who was dead before that war.  I once again thank Robin for posting my photographs.

illinigander  

[robinb]

[utica3]

Very nice 1.65 Hotchkiss mountain gun round display. Thanks for posting these pictures and the information regarding the individual rounds Robinb and illinigander. Yep, my round is definitely a 1.65 Hotchkiss canister. It looks exactly like the one in your attached picture.

 

Eric

 

 

[CAC1901]

Nice. At first glance of your photo I thought...hhmm...1.65 Hotchkiss.  Yes a canister round. Contract made by Am Ord. Co. which also made 1.65 mt. guns for the Army in 1899 for the Span Am war. These missed the Cuban campaign but saw service in the Phillipines from 1899.  Note that it is center fire. Around 1895-96 if I recall right there was a move to modify the original friction primed Hotchkiss 1.65 guns to a center fire gun. Many but not all were updated i.e. modified. The Am. Ord. Co. guns for the army were all manufactured as center fire. Most of these 1.65 cartridges - I've had many variants - were dated 1900 1901 etc. and old Bannermans stock. The Frankford Arsenal caniter round is tinned and uses a flat nose canister, not rounded or radii nosed like the Am Ord version. Don't know if yours still has the powder but these used a smokeless chip powder, large reddish color square flakes with a cheese cloth cup or wad at the primer end with some black powder in it - to get the chips going when fired. As far as safety these are quite safe. Its just basically a big bullet. The canister is lead balls in a solid matrix material. 

[utica3]

CAC1901,

 

Your posts are always informative. I appreciate it.

 

Eric

[Backtheattack]

Great information, thank`s to you all.