The Rooster Posted January 23, 2022 Share #1 Posted January 23, 2022 Greetings all. I only have these two images but is this a real Colts M7? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collector2 Posted January 23, 2022 Share #2 Posted January 23, 2022 Looks like a copy, back cut is wrong, blade stamp looks wrong and scabbard wrong to be for genuine US Colt M7. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share #3 Posted January 23, 2022 Thank you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misfit 45 Posted January 23, 2022 Share #4 Posted January 23, 2022 Hey Rooster,, Do not dismiss this Colt M7 quite yet. In January 2013, I saw a Colt marked M7 bayonet on ebay that really got the ol’ juices flowing. I was shocked to see that although it looked like a Colt/Imperial M7 it had a 90° back cut, or runout. I have collected US bayonets for many years and have had several Colt/Imperial M7s which all have a curved runout. This one was different. I bid high and still lost it. In April 2014, I saw another one on ebay and I won the bid and was thrilled when it arrived. It did not come with a scabbard and it obviously had never been in one. No scabbard marks. Here’s the interesting part. The seller was the son of a machinist that worked at Colt in Hartford, Conn., and retired in 1965. He brought a few of these home and gave them to his kids. The seller also said his dad brought a bunch of unfinished blades home which were thrown away when they moved to Florida. His dad has since passed away. I asked the seller many questions, but he simply did not know any more than he had already told me. Since it has the 90° back cut, I have called it the Colt/90 M7 simply to differentiate it from the Colt/Imperial. Imperial said that they provided about 30,000 Colt marked bayonets to Colt. Colt executive Robert Roy, said, “They (the Colt marked M7s) have been made by a variety of manufacturers, but in many cases there are no identifying marks to indicate who the manufacturer is.” I believe it was William Humes that wrote this: All the information that I have found indicates that the first US Ordnance contract for the M7 bayonet was indeed issued to Columbus Milpar and Manufacturing Company in May 1964, and that they were not able to get into actual production until late in 1964 and quantity production in early 1965. Therefore all AR15 / XM16 etc. rifles delivered prior to late 1964 would have had M7 bayonets supplied with them from Colt purchases from Universal Industries / Eickhorn / Imperial. According to the forgoing information, Eickhorn made M7s for Colt in 1964! The reason that is of particular interest, is that the font on the Colt/90 blade is exactly like the font of Eickhorn M7s made in the 1970s. I am guessing you do not have this bayonet in your possession yet, but unlike the Colt/Imperial, the peen on the latch plate will look like a starburst that has been partly ground, or smeared. I have documented eight differences between the Colt/90 and the Colt/Imperial. One of those differences is the Colt/90 does not have the two stress holes at the cross guard. I won’t go into all of them now. Including “yours”, I have seen 5 of these since 2013, and none of them have a special scabbard. Two were found with a PWH M8A1. I bought a Colt/90 from Frank Trzaska last year which was in a crinkle finish scabbard. He thought, at first, that the bayonet was the typical Imperial/Colt M7. When I emailed him about it, he changed the listing to “manufacture of unknown origin”. The picture below shows two Colt/Imperials, one Colt/Milpar, and lastly the Colt/90. Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share #5 Posted January 23, 2022 Hi Marv. Thank you for that education Marv. The one pictured above is for sale on the web. It comes with what they call a West German scabbard. All of the ones I have seen with the US M7 on the hand guard has the US M7 extending past the blade this one is flush with where the blade ends. Its the only one Ive seen like that. Could this have been made in West Germany? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misfit 45 Posted January 24, 2022 Share #6 Posted January 24, 2022 Keep in mind that without clear documentation, the above information is speculative. The simple answer is yes, there is a strong Eickhorn connection, which means, W. Germany. However, this particular M7, in my opinion, is not one of those from the 1970s. The strongest evidence for that, is the story of the seller who said he got the one I bought, from his dad before 1965. As for it being made by Eickhorn, here are some comparison pictures from known Eickhhorn Colt M7s. Other than the W. Germany line, the font and position of the letters and logo are identical. However, the screws on the W. German M7 are flat and have a loose nut rather than a threaded knurled nut. In the second picture, notice the identical U.S M7 mark. Notice too, the nearly exact shape of the cross guard. In picture no. 3, there a departure from the sameness. Eickhorn usually welds the pommel. The Colt/90 has a starburst peen which in every case I've seen is "smeared" by a grinding wheel. Just to make things really crazy and confusing, I have a Gen Cut M7 from 1996 that has the same U.S. M7 mark as the Colt/90 and a similar pommel peen. See pics 4 and 5. So we are left wondering what's going on? I think the Colt/90 was made by Eickhorn in 1964, but there are still a lot of questions about it. Did General Cutlery buy Eickhorn's machinery out of their many bankruptcies? Everything is still on the table as to the origin of this confusing little Colt M7. Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slufstuff Posted January 24, 2022 Share #7 Posted January 24, 2022 The scabbard pictured looks like one for a West German G3 bayonet. Most of the Eickhorn M7's are marked "made in West Germany". However, OP bayonet shows the finer detailed globe under the pony which looks like the globe under known German made M7's. Also, the USA is slightly "stretched" in OP bayonet, compare this to the German made Colt M7 markings in the below picture I snagged from the internet. I think it is possible, maybe likely, this is a German made Colt M7 in the OP post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misfit 45 Posted January 24, 2022 Share #8 Posted January 24, 2022 I think the M7 in the opening post is special. Yes, it was likely made in W. Germany, but it was made to specs not found on (dare I say any?) other W. German made M7s. For example, the "U shaped" retainer for the cross guard is always found on U.S. made M7s. Eickhorn in W. Germany welded their cross guards. The photo below shows the Colt/Imperial on top, and the Colt/90 on the bottom. The comparison shows the round hole vs. the square hole through which the retainer passes, however, the very presence of the retainer itself, shows possible U.S. contract implications. Even though we can't confirm it's history, I would not dismiss this as simply one of Eickhorn's commercial products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKIPH Posted January 24, 2022 Share #9 Posted January 24, 2022 Hey Gang ! Very interesting, and informative thread. Thanks! SKIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactroop Posted January 25, 2022 Share #10 Posted January 25, 2022 Yes, Marv continues to press forward on the Colt/M7's post brown and green handles. As far as the two images in the OP goes, I can't see them. Rooster, our image postings here are a little unique in order to preserve the archiving ability of this forum. You might want to review same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted January 25, 2022 Author Share #11 Posted January 25, 2022 1 hour ago, sactroop said: Yes, Marv continues to press forward on the Colt/M7's post brown and green handles. As far as the two images in the OP goes, I can't see them. Rooster, our image postings here are a little unique in order to preserve the archiving ability of this forum. You might want to review same. Im not sure what issue you are having seeing the images? I dragged and dropped em where they go when I made my post and I see them. Not sure what you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collector2 Posted January 25, 2022 Share #12 Posted January 25, 2022 I do not see a problem with your 2 opening photo's, they were there right from the start. As stated above, the scabbard or the part of scabbard that we can see, appears to be the W. German G 3 bayonet scabbard possibly made in the 60's/70's. Unfortunately the photo's of bayonet do not show enough to be able to see if cross guard is held by retainer or weld. cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactroop Posted January 27, 2022 Share #13 Posted January 27, 2022 On 1/24/2022 at 6:12 PM, The Rooster said: Im not sure what issue you are having seeing the images? I dragged and dropped em where they go when I made my post and I see them. Not sure what you mean? Rooster, all I ever see including right now in your opening post is two grey boxes with a small blue box in the middle with a question mark in it. I can not open either of them. Glad this isn't happening to others. All the other images in this thread are fine for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share #14 Posted January 28, 2022 Sactroop PM sent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share #15 Posted January 28, 2022 Heres an Eikhorn Colt for sale on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/393901204604?hash=item5bb657647c:g:y6cAAOSwmuJh8LEj I dont know much about these colts but the one in the listing looks cheaply made or something? Its got West Germany stamped into it. The one in the original post above looks much different than this one. I see Numrich Gun Parts has been selling colts for many years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted February 5, 2022 Author Share #16 Posted February 5, 2022 I ended up buying a Colt from Numrich. They sell two grades. I got the cheaper grade at 85.00. Its decent. The blade is a bit used. I noticed from some older posts on the forum that numrich has been selling these for years. The price has gone up. This same bayo was selling for around 56.00 from numrich in 2013. It came in with a bad sheath that had no strap to restrain the bayonet. I was put off by that as they said "Good Condition" which the sheath was def not serviceable. Numrich sent me a replacement no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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