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Named and salty USMC Lid.


blademan
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blademan

Greetings

Been collecting for decades and finally picked up a WWII USMC Camo lid.

I believe this is an early fixed bail helmet, with a well worn and faded 1st pattern hbt Camo cover. The steel pot is ink stamped "H.B. Burt". I'm assuming that is the original marine who owned it. 

 

I like the survivor look of this one. 

 

I tried to look under the cover but gave up for fear of damaging the liner. 

 

I would really appreciate any input/info on this marine (division, unit...).

 

Thanks for looking. 

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ArchangelDM

Great helmet, I couldn't find any H B Burt, maybe the first letter is an R ? - also there appears to be writing above that. What does it say ? 


- Dean 
 

 

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blademan
29 minutes ago, ArchangelDM said:

Great helmet, I couldn't find any H B Burt, maybe the first letter is an R ? - also there appears to be writing above that. What does it say ? 


- Dean 
 

 

I'm pretty sure the first letter is a H. The helmet is marked a number of times but the risk is taking over. I wish I knew what the other writing was. The dtsnp didn't make good contact on the round surface. 

 

Here are some of the other marks. 

 

Thanks for everyone replies. 

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blademan
3 hours ago, Justin said:

Nice helmet, maybe try Korean War era records since the liner is of that vintage. 

Good idea.

 

It's been a while since I bought an m1 helmet. What characteristics make this liner KW? It does have a front grommet hole and thought that was only a feature of Wwii liners. I seem to remember there was a color difference of the liner webbinga. Don't recall if this one would be considered Wwii or KW?

Thanks again

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patrick_usmc

I've found two Marines, Hugh B. Burt, who served from 1940 til 1944 or so. Another Marine, Harold B. Burt, who seems to have joined in 1957 and served through at least 1949. When I have a minute (and we perhaps have a better idea), I can go through and type up their service history as I see it in the rolls. 

 

So, I suppose that this gives us a couple of options (provided it is not related to one of those Army names). My guess would be that dating the helmet might give an idea. Is there anything that can tell us for sure whether it's a WWII helmet as opposed to a later helmet and maybe answer that question? 

 

Blademan, it looks like there's a second name in there too - is that correct? That may help narrow it down. And if you don't mind me asking, where did you pick it up? That may help associate it with one name or another, if it was an estate sale or antique shop type pickup. 

 

Hope this helps!

 

Patrick

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patrick_usmc

I reread a little more closely and saw that you’re unsure of the top writing. So feel free to ignore that question. 

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blademan
2 hours ago, patrick_usmc said:

I've found two Marines, Hugh B. Burt, who served from 1940 til 1944 or so. Another Marine, Harold B. Burt, who seems to have joined in 1957 and served through at least 1949. When I have a minute (and we perhaps have a better idea), I can go through and type up their service history as I see it in the rolls. 

 

So, I suppose that this gives us a couple of options (provided it is not related to one of those Army names). My guess would be that dating the helmet might give an idea. Is there anything that can tell us for sure whether it's a WWII helmet as opposed to a later helmet and maybe answer that question? 

 

Blademan, it looks like there's a second name in there too - is that correct? That may help narrow it down. And if you don't mind me asking, where did you pick it up? That may help associate it with one name or another, if it was an estate sale or antique shop type pickup. 

 

Hope this helps!

 

Patrick

8 hours ago, ArchangelDM said:

Great helmet, I couldn't find any H B Burt, maybe the first letter is an R ? - also there appears to be writing above that. What does it say ? 


- Dean 
 

 

I'm pretty sure the first letter is a H. The helmet is marked a number of times but the risk is taking over. I wish I

 

2 hours ago, patrick_usmc said:

I've found two Marines, Hugh B. Burt, who served from 1940 til 1944 or so. Another Marine, Harold B. Burt, who seems to have joined in 1957 and served through at least 1949. When I have a minute (and we perhaps have a better idea), I can go through and type up their service history as I see it in the rolls. 

 

So, I suppose that this gives us a couple of options (provided it is not related to one of those Army names). My guess would be that dating the helmet might give an idea. Is there anything that can tell us for sure whether it's a WWII helmet as opposed to a later helmet and maybe answer that question? 

 

Blademan, it looks like there's a second name in there too - is that correct? That may help narrow it down. And if you don't mind me asking, where did you pick it up? That may help associate it with one name or another, if it was an estate sale or antique shop type pickup. 

Patrick

Thanks so much for the help. I attempted another reply but not sure why it didn't post. 

 

The guy I got the helmet from said it was given to him by a friend who's dad was a Wwii vet. He didn't recall any other info. The helmet was obtained on the central coast of California. 

 

I suspect the guy you found is likely the guy. If he lived n California, I would think that would be him. 

 

The helmet seems to be all early Wwii.  

 

Thanks again

 

 

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FT.Monmouth1943

The liner webbing appears to be OD green, which would make it a Korean War liner. As for which H B Burt this helmet belonged to, that’s hard to say. The fixed bail shell could very well have been used by the first H B Burt, but then re-issued to another marine in the 1950s. It’s not entirely uncommon to see WWII USMC stuff named to WWII vets being re-issued post war.

 

- Jakob

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11 hours ago, blademan said:

Good idea.

 

It's been a while since I bought an m1 helmet. What characteristics make this liner KW? It does have a front grommet hole and thought that was only a feature of Wwii liners. I seem to remember there was a color difference of the liner webbinga. Don't recall if this one would be considered Wwii or KW?

Thanks again

 

The OD#7 webbing is post WWII, the eyelet was removed from liner production in 1955. The non slit covers also seem to be more popular in Korea vs WWII, or at least there's more photo evidence of it. It's still a nice helmet non the less 

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blademan

Gentlemen, 

Thank you so much for your input. 

 

Great info on the liner. I remember reading this info long ago.  I forget what I forgot 🙂

 

The liner paint is a little shiny and would fit in with what you all are saying about post war.

 

I had no idea these 1st pattern covers were used after the war but that makes sense.

 

I was hoping for a good story for my memorial day presentations but it is a nice helmet never the less. 

 

With any luck, one of the two guys can be connected to it. 

 

Thanks agan and always a fun journey. 

 

 

 

 

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patrick_usmc

FindAGrave wasn't helpful in finding any of these two Marines, so I can't make a California connection at the moment. 

 

The first Marine was Harold B. Burt.  He's listed with the 1st Recruit Training Bn at MCRD San Diego in July 1957. In October 1957, he's shown with "Trainee F Co, 1st Battalion, 2nd Infantry Training Regiment" at Camp Pendleton, with an MOS of 0300. From January 1958 to October 1958, he's listed in the muster rolls for Marine Barracks NAS NAMTC (Naval Air Missile Test Center) Point Mugu, California. 

He doesn't show up in the rolls again after October, 1958. 

 

The other Marine is Hugh B. Burt. 

- He enlisted on July 6, 1940 from New Orleans, LA. He went to MCB San Diego that same month. In September and October 1940, he's listed as a "student coach" in the rifle range detachment at MCB San Diego, and from November 1940 to July 1941, he was still stationed there as a "Coach".

- In July 1941, he's listed as transferred "to MB, NavAirSta Lakehurst, N.J., for parachute troop training". The July 1941 muster rolls for Lakehurst say that he was under instruction from July 9th - 31st, as a member of the parachute detachment, and on the 21st was rated "spl lcl parachutist by CO". 

- In October 1941, he's listed as a "spl lcl parachutist" with Company B of the Second Parachute Bn., Division Special Troops, Second Marine Division. In January 1942, He's listed as "Para" with the same unit, and had temporary duty as a Rifle Range Coach back at MCB San Diego (maybe to help with a large new influx of recruits?)

- He's still listed with Company B of the 2nd Parachute Bn through January 1943, though by that point the designation has been changed to "Second Parachute Battalion, Corps Troops, First Marine Amphibious Corps". 

- In April 1943, he's listed as a member of Company "F", 2nd Parachute Battalion, First Marine Parachute Regiment. It lists him at the "USN Mob Hosp #5" from the 22nd - 30th, though it doesn't say why. 

- In July 1943, he was sent to HqCo, Parachute Training Regiment at Camp Gillespie. In October 1943, he's shown at Company F of the Infantry Battalion, TC, Camp Elliott, and listed as transferred to Company "E".

- In October 1943, he's shown with "CasCo. #1, Marine Detachment, US Naval Hospital, San Diego, Ca.", with a footnote saying he was transferred from the Infantry Bn at Camp Elliott. On January 6, 1944, he was discharged "Upon report of MS for disability. Not result of own misconduct. Char Exc."

 

I hope this helps. I've got a feeling it probably belonged to Harold Burt based on what the others have said, but perhaps it could have belonged to Hugh as well. Any chance those illegible letters match up with one of the duty stations listed above? That could pin it down.  

 

All the best,

 

Patrick

 

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blademan
1 hour ago, patrick_usmc said:

FindAGrave wasn't helpful in finding any of these two Marines, so I can't make a California connection at the moment. 

 

The first Marine was Harold B. Burt.  He's listed with the 1st Recruit Training Bn at MCRD San Diego in July 1957. In October 1957, he's shown with "Trainee F Co, 1st Battalion, 2nd Infantry Training Regiment" at Camp Pendleton, with an MOS of 0300. From January 1958 to October 1958, he's listed in the muster rolls for Marine Barracks NAS NAMTC (Naval Air Missile Test Center) Point Mugu, California. 

He doesn't show up in the rolls again after October, 1958. 

 

The other Marine is Hugh B. Burt. 

- He enlisted on July 6, 1940 from New Orleans, LA. He went to MCB San Diego that same month. In September and October 1940, he's listed as a "student coach" in the rifle range detachment at MCB San Diego, and from November 1940 to July 1941, he was still stationed there as a "Coach".

- In July 1941, he's listed as transferred "to MB, NavAirSta Lakehurst, N.J., for parachute troop training". The July 1941 muster rolls for Lakehurst say that he was under instruction from July 9th - 31st, as a member of the parachute detachment, and on the 21st was rated "spl lcl parachutist by CO". 

- In October 1941, he's listed as a "spl lcl parachutist" with Company B of the Second Parachute Bn., Division Special Troops, Second Marine Division. In January 1942, He's listed as "Para" with the same unit, and had temporary duty as a Rifle Range Coach back at MCB San Diego (maybe to help with a large new influx of recruits?)

- He's still listed with Company B of the 2nd Parachute Bn through January 1943, though by that point the designation has been changed to "Second Parachute Battalion, Corps Troops, First Marine Amphibious Corps". 

- In April 1943, he's listed as a member of Company "F", 2nd Parachute Battalion, First Marine Parachute Regiment. It lists him at the "USN Mob Hosp #5" from the 22nd - 30th, though it doesn't say why. 

- In July 1943, he was sent to HqCo, Parachute Training Regiment at Camp Gillespie. In October 1943, he's shown at Company F of the Infantry Battalion, TC, Camp Elliott, and listed as transferred to Company "E".

- In October 1943, he's shown with "CasCo. #1, Marine Detachment, US Naval Hospital, San Diego, Ca.", with a footnote saying he was transferred from the Infantry Bn at Camp Elliott. On January 6, 1944, he was discharged "Upon report of MS for disability. Not result of own misconduct. Char Exc."

 

I hope this helps. I've got a feeling it probably belonged to Harold Burt based on what the others have said, but perhaps it could have belonged to Hugh as well. Any chance those illegible letters match up with one of the duty stations listed above? That could pin it down.  

 

All the best,

 

Patrick

 

Patrick,

Thank you so much for this info. I will see if I can pull any more info off the helmet. There seems to be other markings that I couldnt interpret but will give it another shot. 

 

I agree is could be either of the guys you mention.  

 

The other markings could be a duty station. I will give it a try  with a black light to see if I can see anything more.

 

 

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blademan

Looking at the liner better I found the makers mark in the crown with a 1951 date. It is certainty a post war liner. 

 

Since I know the vet that brought the helmet home was a Wwii vet, it is likely he was also a Korean war vet as well. It is unknow if he was a marine in Wwii. 

 

I plan to ask the seller of this helmet if he recalls the sir name of the vets family. Since they were friends, I'm sure he will remember. 

 

The following scenero seems to make sense:  The helmet was originally issued to the Wwii vet Patrick found, he put his name in the helmet, and turned the helmet in when he was discharged. The helmet went back into inventory and was reissued during the Korean war to the vet that brought it home. 

 

Hopefully I can clear some his up when infant with the seller. 

 

Thanks again for everyone's input. 

 

 

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patrick_usmc

Good eye on that! Keep us updated with what you find out from the seller. 

Great helmet. 

 

Patrick

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