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Fake WWI DSC/ Navy Cross group eBay Seller bigp63


Bill_Carman
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Did anyone on the Forum get the DSC/Navy Cross group(s) that were on eBay until they disappeared?

 

The two separate auctions consisted of the Distinguished Service Cross number 7011, Navy Cross, Victory Medal with Silver Citation Star, French Croix de Guerre, 6th Regiment helmet with name, EGA and 2nd Division pin. The DSC auction disappeared about noon Saturday, I think eBay pulled it and the second auction, helmet and Navy Cross, was pulled by the seller later that evening.

 

The awards were awarded to:

Private Joe Nichols Viera of the 78th Company, 6th Regiment, 2nd Marine Division, was awarded the Navy Cross Medal, the second highest medal that can be awarded by the U.S. Navy and which is awarded to members of the U.S. Navy or U.S. Marine Corps for heroism or distinguished service. On October 3, 1918, Private Viera, captured three enemy machine gun nests and with the aid of another Marine captured forty enemy soldiers in the Battle of Blanc Mont Ridge. He was also awarded the Distinguished Service Cross, the United States Army second highest medal, for the same action.

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USMC DSC and EGA and Pin.jpg

USMC Helmet and Navy Cross, VM and F CdG.jpg

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I wasn't a fan of the DSC. The numbering on it didn't look correct. I had an overall bad feeling about the group, personal opinion. (Sadly, I looked at the numbering close-up but didn't take a screenshot...) 

 

I'm including a couple of screenshots of DSCs below for comparison. One is the one from my book, formerly in my collection. The numbering is vastly different. The other is a screenshot from an eBay auction where I wasn't comfortable with the medal. However, the purpose of this image is to compare the numbering on the medal to the numbering on the medal in this auction...at least the one in my screenshot fits on the edge of the cross arm, whereas the one in this auction isn't close to that (it's really messy; I wish I had a better shot to compare them). 

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Also, for some reason, I remember seeing the DSC 7041 (or is it 7011?) in a photo somewhere. Someone sent it to me for my opinion and I told them I wasn't a fan. 

I know that sounds strange, but people send me photos of medals almost daily and something about this one really stood out to me. I've tried to search for the e-mail or message, but I can't find it, unfortunately. 

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Another set of photos. One is Charles Bell's DSC, 7723. Compare it side-by-side with the one in this auction, 7011 (or 41? It looked like 41 on my phone LOL)

Not to further beat a dead horse, but compare Bell's DSC to DSC #17 in the previous post. They are almost identical. 

Edit: I'm including the DSC to Walter Fraser (thanks Robert Wilson!) to the mix. Again, the three DSCs look identical - and not like the 7011 DSC from the auction.

 

 

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I didn't really study the one on auction that started this thread, but I did save the listing which of course is now gone since the listing was ended. For some reason, I never saw the second listing with the NC and helmet. For what it is worth here is the DSC from a Marine Lieutenant awarded it for action on October 4th at Mont Blanc. I have his NC and PH as well along with numerous documents including both types of citation he was issued for the DSC. This came direct from the family in 2015 and had never ben in a collection before I acquired it. Just for comparison purposes. I wish we had a photo of the number on the DSC from the auction. 

 

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The same seller recently sold this grouping, which was put together: 

image.png.e24d96db0fd4034e27506a1ca301a58f.png

 

About half of the 3rd Div grouping was legitimate, and I was hot for it 5-6 years ago when it was listed by another seller on ebay (he was a Minnesotan KIA with the unit), I think it sold for $600ish.  The DSC, 3rd Div insignia and VM (along with a few other things) were all added to this grouping.  There was no closeup or mention of numbering on this DSC.

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I am not a big fan of that helmet. Its certainly not one of the two or three styles attributed to this unit AND it is not the brown painted shell you almost always see with this company. To me, that paint  just doesn't look right IMO.  

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I took screenshots of the auction pictures before it was dumped by eBay. I was really not a fan of how the ring was soldered on the DSC. I remember on another forum people making comments about a fake DFC that wasn’t soldered. I’m thinking this person is paying attention and trying to get better at their craft.

 

 

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6796C8F3-77CE-43F6-8D84-E3B6EF49DF5F.jpeg

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19 hours ago, warguy said:

I am not a big fan of that helmet. Its certainly not one of the two or three styles attributed to this unit AND it is not the brown painted shell you almost always see with this company. To me, that paint  just doesn't look right IMO.  

Agree with Kevin... +1

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What's interesting is that the background of the bad DSC I posted earlier was the same as in this auction. Looking back through my photos, I found one with the seller's name...turns out it's the same guy!

 

2021-12-13_14-43-58.jpg

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On 12/12/2021 at 2:50 PM, AustinO said:

The same seller recently sold this grouping, which was put together: 

image.png.e24d96db0fd4034e27506a1ca301a58f.png

 

About half of the 3rd Div grouping was legitimate, and I was hot for it 5-6 years ago when it was listed by another seller on ebay (he was a Minnesotan KIA with the unit), I think it sold for $600ish.  The DSC, 3rd Div insignia and VM (along with a few other things) were all added to this grouping.  There was no closeup or mention of numbering on this DSC.

 I saw this group when it was listed and agree it was partly put together, and I sent a message to the seller asking if the DSC was numbered. I received this reply, which I immediately know was BS as it makes no sense.

 

No number, posthumously awarded in 1930 without a number.
 

As for the "Marine" group at the start of this thread, I agree the numbering on the DSC is bogus, and I would expect the Navy Cross to (very likely) have the purple ribbon with thinner stripe (based on some wonderful feedback I recently learned from a great and long-time collector).

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4 hours ago, AustinO said:

Sellers is probably reading this thread.  "Grouping" now appears to be split up and being sold as pieces. 

Probably right.  The description is also so vague.  Other sold listing of helmets the seller has had great details on the units in the listing title.

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Ok Chuck, so I have been wrong before….my wife might suggest maybe even more than once, ha! Everyone cant always get it right all the time. That’s a lot of cash for this helmet, and I never saw the ebay listing, but based on the photo posted here, I was pretty detailed in my concerns on this helmet. I will re-articulate:

 

1.) A 2/6 helmet without a brown painted shell which you see on the majority of these helmets.

2.) Paint on the front that doesn’t conform to another artist/style I have seen for this Company.

3.) I will add-an ega mounted high whereas ALL of the 2/6 helmets I have seen are mounted low.

4.) Age on the paint that just doesn’t look right (to me at least) at first glance….no scrapes, even smooth finish across surface,un-discernible brush strokes, etc.

5.) Sold by a seller with a history of selling put together lots and suspect artifacts.

 

So please, tell us, why do you think it is real and to an identified true warrior? I know there are no absolutes in this hobby, but I must have missed something here. Inquiring minds want to know. 

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normaninvasion

I feel like this helmet has showed up on the forum before. I'm not to keen on the paint based on photos. Just not too sure about these artistically done Indian heads?

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