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I thought I would share some items of my US Dragoon collection, whilst I mainly collect later US Cavalry items I have an interest in the US Dragoons and the Mexican War in particular, but like many collectors it expanded slightly from the initial focus with some pre and post Mexican War Dragoon items.

The first photo from top to bottom shows Pattern 1833 Dragoon Sabre Belt and model 1818 Starr Sabre in use until the model 1833 sabre began to be issued, the knot is a reproduction.

Next is the US Dragoon sabre Belt 1833/37, this is different from the earlier pattern in having hooks on the sabre straps making it easier to attach the sabre, Pattern 1839 carbine cartridge box and Ames model 1833 sabre (repro saber knot), the belt shows some damage and may be a result of it being used in conjunction with the much heavier Model 1840 sabre.

Lastly is an 1841 US Dragoon sabre belt with what is commonly known as the pattern 1845 cap pouch identifiable by the closing finial on the front of the pouch, also shown is the Pattern 1839 carbine/rifle cartridge box with small US box plate. Along with the belt is an S&K trial sabre dating to 1839, this being one of six hundred that were purchased by the US and tested in the field, this model saber was later being produced by Ames.

The carbine cartridge box differs to the rifle version in that it has no implement pouch, tools were carried in a trap on the carbine but later when these were done away with the Pattern 1839 rifle cartridge box was adopted having a tool pocket under the flap. Unlike the 1839 musket cartridge box these cartridge boxes do not have a buff cross strap but use belt loops instead. 

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This  photo shows the pattern 1833 Dragoon sabre belt with 1818 Starr saber, Model 1833 Hall Carbine and Model 1836 pistol.

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Next up is the Pattern 1833/37 saber belt, Model 1833 Hall carbine again with bayonet part extended, Model 1833 saber, Model 1836 pistols and Pattern 1839 carbine cartridge box.

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For the Mexican War period, shown here the Pattern 1841 saber belt is shown with Pattern 1845 cap pouch, Pattern 1839 carbine/rifle cartridge box, circa 1837 pommel holsters, Model 1840 Hall carbine, M1836 pistol and 1839 S&K trial sabre with original period knot.

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Lastly and just post Mexican War, Officers Model 1847 Grimsley saddle shown here with horse shoe pouch and pommel holster for a Colt Model 1851 Navy with a large pouch for grooming articles, complete with all straps and leather covers.

Thanks for looking, Kurt.

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US Victory Museum

I have always been impressed by your champagne taste when it comes to collecting.   Those are truly some rare

artifacts that you have acquired, photographed, and shared with the rest of us.

 

Magnificent!

 

Thank you, Kurt.

 

Your friend and fellow collector,

Mike

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gwb123 thank you for the link, there are some very impressive items and well presented. On the subject of museums I can recommend the National Cowboy & Western Heritage museum, they house the artist Joe Grandee's collection it is quite a stunning display including many Dragoon items.

Kurt.

 

 

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Thanks again for all the positive comments, it makes it worth sharing the items.

 

Mike, it is always good to hear from you my friend, thank you for your kind words. It has taken years to acquire many of these items, as you will appreciate some of the arms are not as difficult to find as the accoutrements, it has been years of patience. But then this applies to many areas of collecting something you will appreciate with your fine collection.

 

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Kurt

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/24/2021 at 2:04 PM, Dragoon said:

The first photo from top to bottom shows Pattern 1833 Dragoon Sabre Belt and model 1818 Starr Sabre in use until the model 1833 sabre began to be issued, the knot is a reproduction.

Very nice collection of some very rare items in great condition, especially the buff gear! 

 

One small quibble:  the M1818 saber was not used by Federal troops; it was procured for militias. 

 

 

 

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Brian Dentino

An amazing collection of early US militaria in your collection!  Well done, and a beautiful collection and thanks for sharing it here for us to see these early and rarely seen items!

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Thanks for all the comments.

 

The buff items are some of my favourites, perhaps surprisingly buff leather lasts quite well in comparison to bridle leather.

 

 

15 hours ago, Spathologist said:

One small quibble:  the M1818 saber was not used by Federal troops; it was procured for militias.

 

Yes you are correct the M1818 saber was a militia sabre but when the Dragoons were first formed this was the sabre available to them, with the first delivery of the M1833 saber not arriving until January 1835. Referring to Thillmann's superb book "Civil War Cavalry & Artillery Sabers" he writes "The first sabres that would have been issued to the Dragoon regiments were the iron reverse P-style hilts made by William Rose and Nathan Starr". He goes on to say "From 1812 through 1818, the government had contracted for over 20,000 cavalry sabres primarily from Nathan Starr. Final deliveries were made in 1822 and these sabres were sufficient to supply the needs of the mounted troops until the introduction of the model 1833 sabre".

This would have also applied to the other arms first issued to the Dragoons, earlier models prior to the Model 1836 pistol and Model Hall carbine being issued just for those few years.

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7 hours ago, Dragoon said:

when the Dragoons were first formed this was the sabre available to them, with the first delivery of the M1833 saber not arriving until January 1835. Referring to Thillmann's superb book "Civil War Cavalry & Artillery Sabers" he writes "The first sabres that would have been issued to the Dragoon regiments were the iron reverse P-style hilts made by William Rose and Nathan Starr". He goes on to say "From 1812 through 1818, the government had contracted for over 20,000 cavalry sabres primarily from Nathan Starr. Final deliveries were made in 1822 and these sabres were sufficient to supply the needs of the mounted troops until the introduction of the model 1833 sabre".

 

I think Thillmann made an incorrect assumption, not understanding how and why the M1818 was contracted.

 

The Militia Act of 1808 required the Federal government to provide arms and equipment to the State militias.  This was funded through Congress by an annual $200,000 appropriation to the "Fund for Arming and Equipping the Militia".  Articles purchased through this fund did not belong to the Army; they were, in effect, held in trust for the States.  Article 3 of the Act requires "all the arms procured in virtue of this act, shall be transmitted to the several States composing this Union, and territories thereof..."  Equipping Federal forces with articles purchased for the militias would be unlawful.

 

The 1818 contract with Starr provides a perfect example of the system.  As copied in Major James Hicks' Nathan Starr - Arms Maker - 1776-1845, the contract agreed to on 28 December 1818 called for 4,000 Infantry swords and 10,000 Cavalry sabers.  "The Infantry swords are intended for the Army, and to be paid out of the Ordnance Fund, and the Cavalry Sabers for the Militia, and to be paid out of the Fund for Arming and Equipping the Militia."  Ron Hickox also notes in his U.S. Military Edged Weapons of the Second Seminole War 1835 - 1842; A Study of U.S. Military Edged Weapons from 1818 to 1842, that "the M1818 Starr-contract sabers were produced for the militia only..."

 

Even if the Army were disposed to misappropriate any militia equipment sitting in its arsenals, Thillmann himself casts doubt that any M1818 sabers would have been available.  He quotes 20,000 sabers of all manufacturers and models made under contract between 1812-1818, with final deliveries in 1822.  He also quotes the annual militia returns for 1834, that give a figure of 34,025 Cavalry enlisted men.  Given the Federal government would have just 20,000 sabers, only half of which were M1818s, to supply 30,000+ militia Cavalry over a decade, and the fact that Federal supplies of equipment were never sufficient to begin with, forcing States to procure items on their own, it doesn't seem very likely that there was a ready supply of militia sabers waiting in Army arsenals to be snatched up by the Dragoons. 

 

Mis dos centavos. 

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I understand with the issue of the M1818 saber but if not that what do you think was issued to the US Dragoons from their formation until the M1833 became available, what else might have been available to them?

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On 12/5/2021 at 1:34 PM, Dragoon said:

I understand with the issue of the M1818 saber but if not that what do you think was issued to the US Dragoons from their formation until the M1833 became available, what else might have been available to them?

 

No idea.  The Mounted Rangers are no help, as they had to provide their own weapons.  The answer may or may not be out there in armory and appropriations archives waiting to be found.  Did the Dragoons have 100% of all their regulation uniform items, horse tack, and other Cavalry-related items waiting for them to form up, or did they form up and get the gear issued as it became available?  It was (and is) not at all uncommon for new US units to get gear as it became available.  Just look at WWI...some US units didn't even have weapons until they arrived in France and were issued British and French arms. 

 

Given the Dragoons were principally riflemen, it might be that sabers were not considered essential equipment and they conducted their first First Expedition without a standardized design.  George Caitlin accompanied the Dragoons on this campaign, and, while his paintings show the officers waving blades (no doubt private purchase), the enlisted troops don't seem to have any sabers.

 

Dušan Farrington is, I think, working on an authoritative reference for edged weaponry from post-Revolution through the antebellum period similar to his reference for post-Civil War sabers, effectively bracketing Thillmann; perhaps he will have unearthed the answer and we'll all find out together.

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I've kept digging into this, as Dragoon's question is a good one:  what were the Dragoons issued? 

 

James Hildreth was one of the first Dragoons, and his Dragoon Campaigns to the Rocky Mountains: Being a History of the Enlistment, Organization, and First Campaigns of the Regiment of United States Dragoons is informative of what equipment the Dragoons had on formation:  essentially none.  Col. Dodge was forced to scrounge clothing as late as November 1833 because the Quartermasters had still not issued uniforms.

 

One of the founding officers, then-Lieutenant Philip St. George Cook, wrote a book on his Dragoon experience, Scenes and Adventures in the Army: or Romance of Military Life.  He transcribes a letter he wrote in May 1834 that gives an intriguing clue:

 

“The river has been this spring, and is now, unusually low. Some of the clothing arrived in February ; after having been, with the sabres and pistols, sunk in a steam boat. The guns made for the dragoons, and some of the clothing, have not yet arrived. Their sabres and pistols are not those intended for the regiment; but of a very rough, inferior quality.

 

So there was some sort of saber intended for the Regiment, but the stocks were lost in transit; as late as May 1834 they were using a crude ersatz.

 

I know there's a report to Congress on arms acquired and issued through 1835.  Hopefully I can find a copy.

 

 

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Firstly apologies for my delay in replying.

 

On 12/7/2021 at 12:34 AM, Spathologist said:

Dušan Farrington is, I think, working on an authoritative reference for edged weaponry from post-Revolution through the antebellum period similar to his reference for post-Civil War sabers, effectively bracketing Thillmann; perhaps he will have unearthed the answer and we'll all find out together.

I am glad to say Dušan is a close friend of many years now and you are correct he is currently working on related project, fingers crossed he will discover the answer in his research. His work is always well researched, referenced and thorough, that is not coming from me just as a friend but as a collector, I think you would agree knowing how you have contributed on a previous book.

 

You raise some good points and provide some tantalising and interesting information, could the model 1821 sabre be described as? "Their sabres and pistols are not those intended for the regiment; but of a very rough, inferior quality"

 

Just to echo what you are saying about how poorly equipped the Dragoons first were, in the book Marches Of the Dragoons in the Mississippi Valley mention is made of the lack of Arms but in relation to firearms, Colonel Dodge writes in August 1833 "to Call the attention of the Genl in Chief to the absolute Neccessity of ordering the Cloathing and Arms intended for the use of the US Dragoons."  Following that in November 1833  "The next day the inspector general appeared , and, followed by his staff, marched through the ranks and pronounced men, horses and equipment in excellent order." again no mention of sabres so his inspection can be interpreted differently.

 

On 12/7/2021 at 12:34 AM, Spathologist said:

Given the Dragoons were principally riflemen, it might be that sabers were not considered essential equipment and they conducted their first First Expedition without a standardized design.  George Caitlin accompanied the Dragoons on this campaign, and, while his paintings show the officers waving blades (no doubt private purchase), the enlisted troops don't seem to have any sabers.

 

Forgive me if you are familiar with the book but just one last quote from around June 1834, "Eager to begin the summer's campaign the officers increased their efforts to prepare men and horses for the far western tour. Sergeant S____ daily instructed a class of officers in swordsmanship, which they in turn attempted to impart to the men."  Sadly another tantalising extract but no details.

 

Kurt.

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20 hours ago, Dragoon said:

I am glad to say Dušan is a close friend of many years now and you are correct he is currently working on related project, fingers crossed he will discover the answer in his research. His work is always well researched, referenced and thorough, that is not coming from me just as a friend but as a collector, I think you would agree knowing how you have contributed on a previous book.

 

 

I share your opinion of the high quality of his work.  His books are, I think, the gold standard authority for the topics he covers, and I was very happy to offer whatever assistance he thought useful in shaping his work.

 

20 hours ago, Dragoon said:

could the model 1821 sabre be described as? "Their sabres and pistols are not those intended for the regiment; but of a very rough, inferior quality"

 

All sabers purchased by the Federal government, including those for the militias, were tested for quality before acceptance by the inspector, so I wouldn't think Cook would describe anything purchased under a Federal contract in those terms.  I suspect that, much like the clothing, it was what they could scrounge source locally until the Quartermaster could catch up.  I am very interested in what the Army loaded on that steam boat...

 

20 hours ago, Dragoon said:

Forgive me if you are familiar with the book but just one last quote from around June 1834, "Eager to begin the summer's campaign the officers increased their efforts to prepare men and horses for the far western tour. Sergeant S____ daily instructed a class of officers in swordsmanship, which they in turn attempted to impart to the men."  Sadly another tantalising extract but no details.

  

I'm not familiar with the book (not yet; it sounds adventurous), but James Hildreth was very much amused by the situation:

 

"It is rather a laughable fact, and one which reflects but little credit upon the accomplished graduates of West Point, that they should be compelled to receive instruction in swordmanship from one of the enlisted members of the regiment.  Such however is the case; and my friend Long Ned (with whom by this time you must have become familiar by my frequent mention of his name) regularly every afternoon exercises a class of commissioned officers in this branch of tactics, which they attempt afterward to impart to the men.  They have no reason however to be ashamed of their instructor, for no man in the country handles the sword with more grace and dexterity; but what I would smile at, is this reverse order of affairs—a sergeant instructing his superior officers in the very science with which, of all others, they should be most familiar."

 

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TheCrustyBosun

Really great collection of items there!!  I could easily imagine them in a museum display setting. Thanks for sharing. 

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