WWII officer shirts… without epaulets?

[BigBrother]

This has been confusing to me. I keep seeing on eBay more and more officer’s shirts from World War II that lack epaulets, yet I thought that was the easy way to tell. How come there are so many of these? Were the regulations not as strict as I thought?

 

Thanks!

[patches]

If they're Khaki, They might be Navy Officer shirts, these didn't have what are called Shoulder Loops, Marine Corps too

[CavalryCombatant]

Possibly just mislabeled?  Sometimes it’s hard to tell the vintage/intended use.

[QED4]

Don't believe everything you see on e-Bay. Many people just don't know what they are talking about and others will say what ever they think will help sell their item. Officer's shirts had shoulder loops if they don't they are something else. The only exception is HBTs where nobody had shoulder loops and field shirts where officers often wore EM shirts because there were easier to come by and cheaper. Army officers dress shirts had shoulder loops.

[pararaftanr2]

12 hours ago, patches said:

If they're Khaki, They might be Navy Officer shirts, these didn't have what are called Shoulder Loops, Marine Corps too

Patches is correct. Per regulation, there were no shoulder loops (epaulets) on Navy officer's khaki uniform shirts in WW2. They wore rank insignia on the collars.

Of course, there were exceptions, as officer's purchased their own uniforms and sometimes made do with what was available, as seen in the second photo below. All images are of Air Group 16 personnel aboard USS Lexington in 1944.

 

 

 

 

[BigBrother]

I can’t find the ones I’m thinking of that literally say “Officer’s” but in the meantime, have a look at this as an example:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-WWII-US-Army-Regulation-Khaki-Wool-Shirt-/175011043107?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

 

Obviously satin-lined, obviously private purchase… but no shoulder loops. What is this?

[pararaftanr2]

As you know, enlisted men were issued their clothing, but there is no reason they could not purchase, and wear, privately tailored uniform items if they chose to, could afford them and they conformed to Army regulations.

[BigBrother]

2 hours ago, pararaftanr2 said:

As you know, enlisted men were issued their clothing, but there is no reason they could not purchase, and wear, privately tailored uniform items if they chose to, could afford them and they conformed to Army regulations.

I’ll try to find the examples where it says Officer’s but then has none of them.

[TheCrustyBosun]

I’ve seen photos of officers with the 5th AF wearing enlisted khakis in the PTO. I’ll start digging. 

[BigBrother]

Here is the inverse, confusing to me, which I also come across: enlisted with shoulder loops (?)

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-40s-US-ARMY-EUROPE-USAREUR-7TH-ARMY-KHAKI-OFFICER-SHIRT-WW2-WWII-SMALL-S-/373832357705?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-40s-US-ARMY-EUROPE-USAREUR-7TH-ARMY-KHAKI-OFFICER-SHIRT-WW2-WWII-SMALL-S-/372632740394?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

[CavalryCombatant]

I own several identical to those you just posted, all Korean War 1951-1953 dated.   No idea if it’s standard on wartime shirts.  

[Justin B.]

I think it was 1947 when enlisted shirts got the shoulder loops. It's hard to tell, in that short of a span, what was actually WW2 and what's early post-war

[patches]

8 hours ago, Justin B. said:

I think it was 1947 when enlisted shirts got the shoulder loops. It's hard to tell, in that short of a span, what was actually WW2 and what's early post-war

That's the date Justin, 1947, for both Khaki and OD Wool shirts, and that's what this shirt on ebay is, a all ranks Khaki shirt, though the Khaki Cotton Twill was common for EMs, officers wore these "Issue Khaki Types" too if they so wanted. Also now both Officers and EMs could wear the Tropical Worsted Khaki uniforms, for EMs usually Senior NCOs, so it's not uncommon to see or find a Officer Reg Tropical Worsted Khaki shirt with that tag in it, with say 1st sergeant Stripes on it from the late 40s and indeed well into the mid 60s, mid 60s (Summer of 1965) is when the long sleeve Khaki shirts are superseded by the short sleeve ones.

[BigBrother]

OK took a hot second but I came across, just now, a case of the original scenario mentioned: a clearly labeled and manufactured officer’s shirt lacking epaulets. Have a look at the first shirt in this collection:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-US-ARMY-PINKS-GREENS-OFFICERS-UNIFORM-37R-JACKET-PANTS-2-SHIRTS-/303791468721?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

[pararaftanr2]

Please, don't take ebay listings as proof of anything.  A seller can put anything into a grouping and you have no way of knowing what is original, or what was added, or when. There are many scenarios to consider as well. Perhaps the shirt in that listing was made with epaulets originally, but they were removed post-war, and the shirt was then worn without them in civilian life?

There are WW2-vintage regulations for Army officer's uniforms that are easy to find, for example a copy of "The Officer's Guide". That tells you what an officer was expected to wear at the time. Any variations are just that, and strictly speaking, "non-regulation".

[BigBrother]

Another example I just came across...

 

https://www.etsy.com/listing/788091257/vintage-shirt-1940s-shirt-khaki-shirt

 

In case that gets taken down in the future...

 

 

 

 

[patches]

On 11/1/2022 at 8:03 AM, BigBrother said:

Another example I just came across...

 

https://www.etsy.com/listing/788091257/vintage-shirt-1940s-shirt-khaki-shirt

 

In case that gets taken down in the future...

 

 

 

 

Excellent shirt, as a commercial type for private purchase, that REGULATION OFFICER'S SHIRT on the tag, is just a marketing gimmick if you will, as mentioned it will have Shoulder Loops if a true Officers shirt. Something comparable to the "Army Air Forces Type" Tanker Jackets sold by Sears, Macy's etc etc, back n the day, just a gimmick, Soldiers did buy them for sure, but as we know the Air Corps did not have a specially or specifically made jacket like this, they just wore the GI Tanker Jacket if they did, like Ground People you know.