WW1 US Victory medal reference for battle bars issued to the Infantry Divisions of the AEF

[mikes militaria]

                                                               Engineers:

Engineers and the Air Service along with a few other units, such as beast’s Army Ambulance Service soldier, were the first US soldiers involved in the war. The medals I have are Railroad Engineers.

 

                                        13th Standard Gauge Railroad Engineers.: Defensive Sector.

                                        65th Railroad Engineers: France. I can’t find Information on the 65th Eng. I must have found info

                                                 somewhere for me to put a France medal with it.

 

[mikes militaria]

                11th Standard Gauge Railroad Engineers: Cambrai, Lys, St. Mihiel, Meuse-Argonne, Defensive Sector.

                12th Light Gauge Railroad Engineers: Cambrai, Somme Defensive, St. Mihiel, Meuse-Argonne, Defensive Sector

                14th Light Gauge Railroad Engineers: Somme Defensive, Aisne-Marne, Oise-Aisne, Meuse-Argonne, Defensive Sector

                16th Standard Gauge Railroad Engineers: Lys, Meuse-Argonne, Defensive Sector

 

                56th Anti-Aircraft Searchlight Engineers: St. Mihiel, Meuse-Argonne, Defensive Sector

 

                The other patches displayed are the two variations of the 34th Utility Engineers and Construction Engineers.

[mikes militaria]

                                                                          Lapel Pins, Rosette, and Mini medals

 The Bronze Lapel pin was issued to all soldiers, unless they were wounded in which they received the Silver Lapel pin.

 A mini lapel ribbon bar, middle top. Below that is a standard Victory Medal ribbon bar. Below that are a set of mini medals. A US Victory Medal and a Span-Am medal. They are reversed, the Span-Am should be to the left. Below that is a Rosette.

The Lapel pins and Rosette are for civilian wear. The mini ribbon is designed for wear in a button hole like the lapel pins.

   The medal on the left is, according to Laslo’s book, is an official Type One medal with a wire suspension with a France bar. 
The ribbon on that medal looks like a newer ribbon. The green stripes are darker than the original ribbons.  Someone please let me know if I’m mistaken about that.

 The medal on the right has an England Service bar. I have no information at all about who would be entitled to that Service bar.

I imagine there were plenty of US personnel in England, I just don’t know who they were. There were over 30,000 people entitled to this bar.  They also could not serve anywhere else over seas in order to get the England bar. Again any info is appreciated.

 

[mikes militaria]

And finally, any unit with a flag, Regimental etc., was entitled to a flag streamer, for their flag, that corresponds with any campaign that unit participated in.

The order of campaigns by date. First to last. Cambrai, Somme Defensive, Lys, Aisne, Montdidier-Noyon, Champagne-Marne, Aisne-Marne, Somme Offensive, Oise-Aisne, Ypres-Lys, St.Mihiel, Meuse-Argonne, Vittorio-Veneto. Defensive Sector.
They should be worn in that order. Remember, some campaigns happened at the same time in different places. Some dates overlap.

The Defensive Sector bar covers from 6 April 1917 to 11 November 1918. Excepting possibly in Russia , which, I don’t know.

The Service Bars are, France, Italy, Russia, Siberia and England. They only got one.

 

If you have a Campaign / Service bar, or clasp, not listed here, it is unofficial. There were a few. The vets pretty much did what they wanted to their medals, so there are probably quite a few with unofficial bars.

 

If anyone has additional information, corrections if I am mistaken about anything, I welcome the info. Enjoy. Mike

                                      

[Edelweisse]

Fantastic collection and display…the WWI Victory medal is beautiful.  Thank you for sharing 

[Salvage Sailor]

Absolutely superb displays of the AEF units and their victory medals.

 

Well Done Sir

 

[Hermanus]

I like it a lot. Thanks for your effort and time. Great displayed.  You owe all patches and medals yourselves?

 

Regards

Herman 

[katieony]

What an excellent collection and display!  Thank you for sharing it!

 

Mike

[mikes militaria]

Hermanus, thank you for the comments. I’m guessing the question is do I own the medals and patches. I hate spell check.

each time I typed Vittorio- Venetto, it came back as victorious Venetian.  The answer is yes I own what I posted. US WW1 is my main interest.

[mikes militaria]

DP 28, thank you for posting your 27th I.D. Medal. I never noticed mine has two bars reversed. Yours is the correct order. Nice medal, I never get tired of looking at the Victory medal.
 Something I’ve noticed ,over the years, is that there are medals with bars not in “correct order”. I guess if I worked all day installing bars on medals, I can understand that a few bars might be installed in the wrong order.
 Also, dealers that might enhance medals could easily make the same mistake. That happens more than we like to think.

 

Thank you all for the kind comments. Mike

[Hermanus]

39 minutes ago, mikes militaria said:

Hermanus, thank you for the comments. I’m guessing the question is do I own the medals and patches. I hate spell check.

each time I typed Vittorio- Venetto, it came back as victorious Venetian.  The answer is yes I own what I posted. US WW1 is my main interest.

 

Yeah, spell check and thick fingers......

Nice collection Mike!

 

Regards

Herman 

[manayunkman]

Super collection.

[mikes militaria]

                                                                          Maltese Cross Ribbon Device.

                                        I realized that I left this one out. I addressed it earlier. I might as well add the picture.

                                       Approved for men and officers of the Marines, Medical Corps and Navy in France

                                       between 6 April 1917 and 11 November 1918 that were not entitled to any battle bar.

 

                                                                   Shown with a 5th Marine Brigade patch

[mikes militaria]

                                                                   CORRECTION:

I just found information on the Aisne campaign. I stated in a previous post that I believed the Aisne bar covered the battle of Belleau Wood. I was mistaken. The Aisne campaign was a Defensive action trying to stop the German advance in that area.

The Aisne campaign dates from 27 May to 5 June 1918. The Allied attack on Belleau Wood started on 6 June 1918. The battle of Belleau Wood is not covered by a battle bar. It would be covered by the Defensive Sector bar.

Also not covered is any action at Chateau-Thierry between 6 June and 16 July 1918. There was fighting at Chateau-Thierry by some elements of the 3rd division starting 31 May. Those soldiers would be entitled to the Aisne bar. If a replacement joined the Chateau-Thierry battle between 6 June and 16 July, he would not be entitled to the Aisne bar, just the Defensive Sector bar.
 

 The Defensive Sector doesn’t quite do the Marines and Soldiers credit due for a brutal battle. I’m sure there were others. It might explain the unofficial battle bars out there. They probably wanted credit for the battles the major operation bars didn’t cover. ( My opinion )

 

                                  

 

A lot of my information comes from different sources. The Laslo book along with various information I’ve collected over the years.

I believe I’ve seen in a post or two that one of our Forum members has written a book about Victory Medals. I haven’t made the time or effort to find how I could get one. My work schedule over the last few years hasn’t allowed me much time to enjoy the Forum and what it has to offer. I would be interested in information on where I could get one. I would think other members interested in Victory Medals might be as well. If the author, I apologize for not knowing who he is, or anyone else could post how to get one of his books, this would be a good place for people to get that information, if appropriate with Forum rules. If for some reason the Forum rules prohibits posting that info a PM would be appreciated. The more information the better.

                                My apologies for the wrong information. Mike

[Primoris Scio]

19 hours ago, mikes militaria said:

DP 28, thank you for posting your 27th I.D. Medal. I never noticed mine has two bars reversed. Yours is the correct order. Nice medal, I never get tired of looking at the Victory medal.
 Something I’ve noticed ,over the years, is that there are medals with bars not in “correct order”. I guess if I worked all day installing bars on medals, I can understand that a few bars might be installed in the wrong order.
 Also, dealers that might enhance medals could easily make the same mistake. That happens more than we like to think.

 

Thank you all for the kind comments. Mike

Mike do you know how the order of precedence was determined for the bars? 

 

The placement of the bars do not seem to follow a chronological order of events, Ypres-Lys occured before the Somme Offensive and the Defensive Sector bar is always at the bottom of the ribbons.  You have done an amazing job with your collection, this thread needs to be pinned.

[mikes militaria]

DP-28.according to my info,  the Somme offensive started before the Ypres-Lys offensive. I have conflicting information. The Laslo books states the Somme-Offensive started 8 August 1918 and ended 11 November 1918. The Ypres-Lys campaign started 19 August 1918 and ended 11 November 1918. I have other info stating The Somme-Offensive started 18 August 1918 and ended 11 November 1918 . The Ypre-Lys started 19 August 1918 and the alternate info shows that the Ypres-Lys campaign ended 16 September 1918. I’ll look farther to figure it all out but regardless of which date is correct, the Somme-Offensive started anywhere from 1 day to 11 days before the Ypres-Lys campaign which shows your medal is in the correct chronological order. Your great grandfather’s unit fought in the Ypres-Lys before being transferred to the Somme-Offensive campaign. The official start dates of both campaigns is opposite of your great grandfathers actual experience. The battles overlapped as far as dates go. His unit was sent where it was felt they were needed the most. I hope this helps.

[Primoris Scio]

 Mike I just saw you answered my question in the other WW1 VM thread also, thank you for the insight!  

 

FYI - I had my username changed from DP-28 to Primoris Scio.

 

[gomorgan]

Absolutely well done, thanks for posting.

[mikes militaria]

I just noticed that. DP-28 is easier to type. Yeah that’s it. No seriously, I saw the quote. It was from your earlier username. I’ve really enjoyed doing this topic. I’ve gotten so involved the time has just flown by. I found myself up until 4am. I feel like I’ve done a mental marathon. I completely missed your new username.

[Salvage Sailor]

On 10/22/2021 at 4:07 PM, mikes militaria said:

France Service bar. I’m mostly dealing with Infantry Divisions. If I tried to list all of the units that  received the France bar it would take days or weeks. Most Service and Supply units, Base Hospitals, Rest Camps, Training Schools, etc. would receive the France bar.

 
        This medal has the France bar as well as two bronze stars.
         My guess is two tours. Not authorized devices, but unique.

 

                  France: In order, left to right, top to bottom.

                  8th I.D., 87th I.D., 38th I.D. 34th I.D., 86th I.D.

                  38th I.D., 87th I.D., 39th I.D., 76th I.D.

                  2) 84th I.D., 83rd I.D.  40th I.D., 31st I.D., 39th I.D., 31st I.D.

( The 83rd emblem is the letters that spell OHIO stack on each other, trivia for today)

The 41st and 85th I.D.s should be here as well.

 

 

Thanks for including the 'Depot Divisions' who qualified for the FRANCE bar.  The 83rd Ohio ID was also where the 332nd Regiment and the AEF Italian Front units came from.  The remainder becoming the 2nd Depot Division.   A Doughboy's French Vacation - France Nov 11, 1918

 

[Primoris Scio]

Mike no worries at all, it changed just prior to your posts, I wanted something more relevant since this is a US militaria forum.  Your work on this thread will help a lot of people better understand the important background of this incredible medal, I know it helped me for sure!

[USMCR79]

On 10/22/2021 at 9:27 PM, mikes militaria said:

                  Siberia and Russia Expeditionary Clasps, or Service bars (or clasps).
 

        Siberia Service bar:

27th Infantry Regiment, 31st I.R., Infantry Replacement Bn., Companies A&B. Field Hospital #4, Evac Hospital #17,

Ambulance Co. #4, Medical Supply Depot #7 plus members of the Army Nurse Corps, Dental Corps and Veterinary Corps.

53rd Telegraph Bn., Co. D, 146th Ordnance Depot, Service Park Unit #333, MTC, Supply and Labor Companies, QMC.

Bakery Co #391, AMC. War Prison Guard Detachment, GHQ Staff Personnel.

 

                           Russia Service bar.:

339th Inf. Rgt., 310th Engineer Rgt., 1st Bn., 337th Ambulance Co., 337th Field Hosp Co., 167th & 168th Companies of the North Russia Transportation Corps.

 

 

                             Defensive Sector:

certain personnel of the Russia and Siberia Expeditions who were actively engaged with an armed enemy were authorized to the Defensive Sector clasp in lieu of an expiation army Clasp.

 

Mike - I read something recently that in 1930 Marines from Ships Detachments that went ashore in Arcangel Russia were given entitlement to the Army Siberia Bar.

 

If they did not go ashore than they were entitled to the Asiatic Bar

 

Bill

[mikes militaria]

Hey Bill, 

  During 1933, the Navy authorized the Army Russia clasp for personnel on shore in Northern Russia from 12 November 1918 to 

31 July 1919. The Siberia clasp for service on shore in Siberia from 12 November 1918 to 30 March 1920. 
The White Sea clasp was extended to include any combatant ship in a Russian port on the White Sea for not less than ten days between 12 November 1918 to 31 July 1919.  The Asiatic clasp was extended to any combatant ship in a Siberian port for not less than 10 days between 12 November 1918 and 30 March 1920.

  The Victory medal was extended to include those who entered the naval service on or after 12 November 1918 and prior to 30 March 1920 and those who served on shore for not less than 10 days in Northern Russia and Siberia or those who were attached to one of ten ships. Albany, Brooklyn, Des Moines, Eagle #1, Eagle #2, Eagle #3, New Orleans, Sacramento, South Dakota or Yankton. The changes were made in 1933 but for service up to 30 March 1920 and not beyond that date.. The Navy only issued one clasp regardless of how many a person was qualified to have.

That’s what I have, Mike

[warroom1]

mikes victory is the best ever a great work all my thanks mike

[bbmilitaria]

This should be pinned for reference. Great work!