Vietnam era claymore mine set?

[LE LOUP DES MERS]

I have a chance to buy a practice training mine set, and the seller told me he doesn't know if it's Vietnam dated or post. My question is, is it Vietnam dated or post? And is it all complete or is it missing parts? looks all complete to me but I could be wrong, seller wants $275.

[DiGilio]

1970s.... post-VN

 

Although the clacker is 1964 dated

 

All the components are there

[LE LOUP DES MERS]

I looked up the lot number on the claymore and it says it's Vietnam dated. But I could be wrong, is 77 the dated of the claymore?

[DiGilio]

Yes, the claymore is from 1977

[LE LOUP DES MERS]

I'm going to have to disagree, I was looking online on different well known military stores and the claymores they have sold as original Vietnam era look identical to the one I posted. For example IMA USA sold several claymore kits with claymores identical to the one I posted as original, unless they are straight up lying about what they're selling.

[DiGilio]

[doyler]

1 hour ago, LE LOUP DES MERS said:

I'm going to have to disagree, I was looking online on different well known military stores and the claymores they have sold as original Vietnam era look identical to the one I posted. For example IMA USA sold several claymore kits with claymores identical to the one I posted as original, unless they are straight up lying about what they're selling.

 

 

I wouldnt depend on IMA for a "research" tool. They dont have a great track record of being welll versed I will say in a lot of what they sell as they are well in it to sell and make money first. Not be a source of accurate information. But it baffles me why people tend to always use these dealer sites and auction companies  who sell repro items as "research" and a gauge to go by.

 

[268th C.A.]

Agreed....

[LE LOUP DES MERS]

48 minutes ago, doyler said:

 

 

I wouldnt depend on IMA for a "research" tool. They dont have a great track record of being welll versed I will say in a lot of what they sell as they are well in it to sell and make money first. Not be a source of accurate information. But it baffles me why people tend to always use these dealer sites and auction companies  who sell repro items as "research" and a gauge to go by.

 

I get what your saying and I don't 100% rely on them. I was mainly just using them as an example but that being said all these sites are straight up lying then.

[mikie]

1 hour ago, DiGilio said:

That is a GREAT piece of information.  One that I was not familiar with.  It should be pinned on the site somewhere.  I'm going to "borrow" it for my own reference.  Thanks! 

 

Mike

[LE LOUP DES MERS]

Well if the claymore mine is post nam, but everything else is correct is it worth the $245 the guy is asking? (I got the price wrong it's not $275 it's actually $245) 

[DiGilio]

It would seem the only thing from the 1960s is the clacker. 

 

The best I can tell, the wire is 1970s. The tester and bandoleer would need better photos. But from the color of the bandoleer, I would bet its post-VN. And the tester would need to see markings, but chances are its gonna be post-VN. 

 

Whether its worth $245 it is up to you. Its in the range of an average asking price when these are for sale.

[lilfry14]

On 10/22/2021 at 10:01 AM, LE LOUP DES MERS said:

I'm going to have to disagree, I was looking online on different well known military stores and the claymores they have sold as original Vietnam era look identical to the one I posted. For example IMA USA sold several claymore kits with claymores identical to the one I posted as original, unless they are straight up lying about what they're selling.

 

 

I wouldn't rely on ima too much. Here is a fake law rocket they sold as real. It uses an m31 rifle grenade for the warhead. At most it'd be worth $125, with most of the Value being the motor section.

 

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-u-s-m72-law-light-anti-tank-weapon-inert-rocket-grenade-training-round?variant=39316830814277

[SubgunFun]

I hate myself as I used to have about four complete units about 30 years ago and ended up giving one away and selling the rest. Now I'd like to get another for my collection.

A couple notes I'd like to add is that the rear cover to the claymore can be replaced. I have seen M18A1 marked ones for sale in the past. Also, with the back cover off it would be nice to see if it has the original steel ball matrix intact, which in my opinion would add to the value. Sometimes they rust and break away.  I assume the blue Claymores are dedicated practice versions where this version was made as a live unit but modded by the manufacturer (hence the M18A1 has been ground off and overstamped with M33). Also, I think the earliest versions (not A1) had a molded in sight. 

That is a nice looking set. Replacement carry bags in like new condition were available the last I looked. I do like that the wire spool is nice and hasn't been wrapped up by hand. Also, most I've seen are missing the dummy blasting cap as they break off after a while. 

If you are in the market for one, I would think the price would be reasonable for internet prices but maybe on the higher side for a local purchase. Again, all in how bad you want one.

Good luck. 

[SubgunFun]

Just found a pic from the last gunshow I had a table at. I had some used Claymores for sale. Interest was less than I expected....

 

[268th C.A.]

It all comes and goes, I tell my wife it will be in a few more collections before its all over...LOL You cant keep it all 

[DiGilio]

Heres some 1960s inert ones I had a while back... 1967, 1968, and 1963 dated mines. The VN-era stuff is out there, and its possible to get decent deals as many wont recognize it and just base prices off the later practice ones. Perhaps unfortunately, I sold all these 4 or so years ago. 

 

1963 mine is the early peep sight version. And the paper-wrapped wire (not plastic spool) is what what was initially issued with these. For the wire on plastic spool, you want to look for the two separate wires leading into the blasting cap, with the plastic section behind it. Even within VN-era timeframe, for components such as clacker, tester, and bandoleer, there are early and later versions for all. Then of course post-VN ones. 

[DiGilio]

And heres live 1968 dated claymores I found among stockpiled ammunition on an observation post in Afghanistan a decade or so ago. Obviously I left them there.

 

The mines were pretty much junk at this point. 

[DiGilio]

Regarding the practice mines... I am not sure what was used during the war. I know there was a stock number (1345-00-402-2226) created in April 1970 for a claymore practice mine kit. That's not definitive in any way, but its described as XM68 suggesting it was a new thing at the time. The M33 mine is a component of the M68 kit. These never held any explosives were made inert from the factory. It seems the M18A1 body moldings were used at first with additional markings added. 

 

As you can see in the photos I posted above, the back plates are all sort of melted... that is from the plastic reacting over time with the explosives. 

 

I dont remember ever seeing any 1960s dated purpose made practice mines. And if I remember correctly, the early field manuals make no mention of practice mines. You would think they produced factory-inert training aids but at the very least it seems they were different than the M33/M68 kits we always see. Those seem to be a 1970s and onward thing. Perhaps in the 1960s the training mines were just regular M18A1s minus the explosives, either left out at the factory or removed later on. And the M68 kits were later developed to fix that less than ideal situation.

 

Perhaps someone else has some info. 

 

[LE LOUP DES MERS]

So I was told the claymore bag is post nam and I was looking on Omahas surplus and found they sell claymore bags. My question is, are these bags Vietnam dated or post nam? I called them up and they told me there Vietnam dated, they also said they have had these bags since they first opened as a business back in the early 70s, they are also asking $50. Here is a link to the claymore bags they sell it will also give more pictures then the ones I posted. 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.omahas.com/shop/claymore-mine-bag/&ved=2ahUKEwiM-fTb3OvzAhUgFzQIHfOoDYAQFnoECAcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2m_cxXYsMOhlsbk99TMqcz

[DiGilio]

I would say that bandoleer is post-VN. 

 

We know the specification for the M7 bandoleer was revised a few times.

 

MIL-B-45417A (by 1960)

MIL-B-45417B (15 August 1966)

MIL-B-45417C (1 June 1973)

MIL-DTL-45417D (31 January 2014)

 

When the mines were introduced they originally had a peep sight. The instruction sheet on the bandoleers reflected this, showing the peep sight (as well as included an additional card on aiming distance). All the ones Ive seen of these have solid snaps and the typical fragile material used for the instruction sheet, although they are somewhat rare to find. 

 

The instruction sheet was changed when the new "knife-edge" style of sights on the mine were introduced. This would roughly coincide with the timeframe of the revised specification in Aug 1966. There are some variations, but just about all these have the solid snaps. Any variations such as snaps or instruction sheet material I believe is just due to the materials on hand by the manufacturer. But its my sense that bandoleer quality and standardization, not just claymore ones, dropped off around the early 70s and this could be a factor. 

 

And then in June 1973 the specification was revised again. That same year in March, Change 2 was issued for the M18A1 field manual (FM 23-23). This change included an updated photograph of the bandoleer instruction sheet which now includes text toward the bottom mentioning the use of the loops on the flap of the bandoleer. So it would seem this is when the loops appeared. By this time the bags have the donut shaped snaps. 

[DiGilio]

I dont have any decent pictures of my own of the bags so Im borrowing some from worthpoint. 

 

Heres a bandoleer for the early peep sight mines from early/mid 60s. You can see the additional aiming card attached in corner of instruction sheet and the peep sight depicted in the red circle. You can also see the correct early components again (paper wrapped wire, early clacker, and early tester). 

 

If you find a bag like this you can be sure it is from the 1960s. 

[DiGilio]

Again pictures from worthpoint...

 

Once the new mines with "knife-edge" type sights came out, they updated the instructions. It looks like there were minor other changes like the stitching of the instruction sheet. 

[DiGilio]

Again pictures from worthpoint. And a picture of the updated instruction sheet shown in Change 2 (30 March 1973) for FM 23-23. 

 

You can see the loops are added to the flap as well as the instruction sheet updated again. Also these bags have the donut shaped snaps.

 

If you want a VN-era bag, look for one of the previous two kinds shown.

 

 

[LE LOUP DES MERS]

49 minutes ago, DiGilio said:

Again pictures from worthpoint. And a picture of the updated instruction sheet shown in Change 2 (30 March 1973) for FM 23-23. 

 

You can see the loops are added to the flap as well as the instruction sheet updated again. Also these bags have the donut shaped snaps.

 

If you want a VN-era bag, look for one of the previous two kinds shown.

 

 

So just to clarify people have different opinions on what is post nam the last one you posted is 73 dated and looks identical to the one on Omahas. I know some collectors say anything past 1970 dated is post nam and some say anything past 1975 dated is post nam. I personally say anything within the 65 to 75 dated range is considered Vietnam well some may say 65 to 70. So what do you consider to be post nam?