Comparison of "brothers from other mothers..." The Amcraft/LGB wing stylings

[pfrost]

This is a thread that I have wanted to start for a very long time.  It is a comparison of one of my favorite wing patterns, the "high shield".  When we look at broad categories of wing shoulder patterns, we can realistically divide them into 3-4 groups.  The Pelican Beak wings that came out during WWII, the Adam's style of wings originally drawn out in 1919 (sometimes called slick, graduation or issue wings), the high shield wings (Amcraft, LGB, Lampl) and the exotics or grab baggers (those that may  not fit neatly into any one group). 

I recently did a thread on the high shoulder AMCRAFT wings, the type 1 pattern, that probably was used from the 20/30's up through WWII.  The LGB wings (which I may get to eventually) that seem to have been mostly WWII (perhaps some pre-war wings), and of course the Lampl wings that were almost certainly ONLY WWII.

 

There are actually a few other related wings in this high shoulder pattern. Today, I include an interesting bird. There are a few others that I may talk about. For example the Mather Field marked wing (although I am not sure that is not WWII vintage either).  Some early JA Meyer's and Link wings, etc.  But for today, I wanted to set the plate for 3 different versions.  An unknown, a LGB and an AMCRAFT (top to bottom).

 

At first glance these wings are almost identical, but there are at least 4 areas were they have subtle differences.  The wing tips and how far the first and second feather tips extend beyond each other, the shape of the shoulder top and the top of the shield, the small veins in the shoulder and the number/arrangement of the featherlets in the shoulder.

[pfrost]

The unknown one (its rather grubby) is what I think is perhaps the earliest version of the 3 shown.  It has as fairly delicate drop in catch, a pinned hinge and is marked sterling.  The photos make it look cast, but it isn.t  The wing is about as thick as an AMCRAFT wing.

[pfrost]

The LGB wing is relatively common.  I always loved these and you do find them in the pilot and alphabet series.  I have always felt that these LGB wings were probably worn throughout WWII overall.  I have also always been less inclined to believe that they were used prior to WWII.  But that is just my opinion.

 

The LGB hallmark is usually rather small on these wings.  Fakes seem to have larger and different fonts.  It seems to me that I primarily see these in sterling and pin back.

[pfrost]

The last for tonight are the AMCRAFTS.  They show up with this distinctive snowflake pattern. Some are hallmarked, some  not.  More often than not the are in either silver colored pot metal or silver plated brass.  More rare are the ones made in STERLING SILVER.  This one is clutch back, but they often are pin back, with a weak style hinge and unique catch that frequently breaks. 

 

I have always felt that these may be found both from the 1930's and well into WWII.  My sense is that they may have been worn for work type duties and they tend to be cheaply made (IMHO) compared to the LGB wings which always seem of a higher quality to me.

[pfrost]

Because they are all so similar, it is often hard to distinguish the EXACT wing being worn in a photo.  AMCRAFT, LGB?  Who can say unless you have a crystal clear picture.

 

Tomorrow, I will add the Lampl high shoulder wing to the discussion as well as what I think may be the precourser of this pattern, the 20's Link "hairy feather" wing.

[pfrost]

ImMarty asked what I meant by high shield. Want I meant to type was high shoulder. Doh…. 

[Kilroy56]

Great presentation , as always.

Thank you Patrick !

[bschwartz]

I've always thought these were very stylish wings as well.  The LGBs are distinctive in hand just due to their crispness and the coloration.  I have an Amcraft that is slightly different from the one that Patrick shows in that the shoulders are not cut out.  This may have been a mistake in the stamping process but it makes for an interesting variation.  

[5thwingmarty]

Thanks for clarifying that Patrick.

 

I don't know about the other ratings, but the LGB Service Pilot wings in this pattern can also be found like Bob's Pilot wing, with and without the shoulders being cut out.  I believe this is the case for both the lined shield and unlined shield LGB Service Pilot wings.  It is interesting that both Amcraft and LGB would both have wings with and without the shoulder cutouts.

 

Marty

 

[5thwingmarty]

I would also suggest that the Donduro pattern wings fit into this family.  Although they have a number of details that clearly distinguish them from Patrick's first three, there are some general stylistic traits that are very similar like the three distinct rows of feathers, the highly detailed shoulders, and the kind of squared-off wing tips.

 

[pfrost]

Marty, I suspect that was just a manufacturing blip.  Perhaps on of the shearing dies was off, or the die was cut slightly different. 

 

To continue to add to the thread about the high SHOULDER wings.

 

First, I suspect that the various designs are just manufacturing variations between companies.  To be honest, there really are only a finite manner in which a wing badge can be made.  Likely there was some "hey, that wing made by AMCRAFT seems to be popular, maybe we can make on like it" thought process, but I suspect that was a relatively minor consideration.

 

Second, I suspect that there was NO evolution of design.  Just some designs were more popular than others, and so tended to be bought more frequently. 

 

That being said, another very similar WWII pattern of high shoulder wings are the Lampl versions (AKA Juarez wings).  I think in previous threads we have pretty much made a link with the Lampl sold wings (they were only a retail store located in the New York/New Jersey area) and the American Southwest and the Bell Manufacturing Co (and also some historical evidence that some of the wings may have actually been made in Mexico).

 

The Lampl wings are all WWII vintage and you can see  how closely they follow the general plan of the AMCRAFT and LBG wings.

[pfrost]

I would agree with Marty that the Dondero pattern also fits these characteristics.  In fact there are many other makers that can fall in this category, not Pelican Beaks or Adam's style.

 

I would argue that, for the most part, the "autobiographical" and photographic evidence suggests that the AMCRAFT, LGB, Dondero, and Juarez wings are all probably WWII vintage (or there about) and were pretty popular with the pilots.

 

The lower range of the date that these wings were worn is a bit less clear.  But we do know that Link seemed to have sold its dies to AMCRAFT sometime before WWII.  This "hairy wing" pattern of pilot badge (it shows up with a number of its own specific variations) is often times attributed to Link from the 1920's and may represent the transition from Link to AMCRAFT-pattern wings.

 

It has some interesting similarities to the high shoulder wings of WWII

[pfrost]

Another wing from my collection is the JA Meyer's of Los Angeles CA version.  My research in JA Meyer's suggests that they may have made at least 2 unique wing patterns in the 1920's or 30's, but probably not later than that.  These may represent some of the earliest "high shoulder patterns"

Again, it is important to note that I don't think these patterns evolved from one to the other.  I suspect that there was more copying of each other's patterns (remember the old "imitation is the greatest form of flattery" adage) than anything else. Its not like there are infinite ways to draw and make a US Government approved pilot wing....

 

Ultimately, the whole purpose of this thread was to geek out on wings.

 

I leave you with a "family portrait" of similar type wings.  I am sure may different patterns and manufacturers can be tossed into this pile.  I just poked my toe into the water, so to speak.

[pfrost]

One other very interesting and rare "high shoulder" sibling is this wing marked with an MFCo hallmark (more than likely Marshal Field Co of Chicago fame).  It is a relatively rare wing (and one on my own personal bucket list) that really shares a ton of interesting similarities with the AMCRAFT and LGB wings.

 

As for date of manufacture, I suspect most collectors would lean towards the late 20's and early 30's. Although Marshal Fields was originally founded in the late 1800's and was around in various forms and names until relatively recently.  Sort of the Chicago's version of Sears and Roebuck Co.  Sometime in during the depression, they seemed to have shut down their wholesale departments and became strictly a retail outfit.  I wouldn't quibble at an early date, but frankly it could also have been something produced during WWII.  In fact, the findings are classic WWII style, so I suspect it remains something to consider one way or the other.

There is a nice thread here:

 

[pfrost]

Ive argued that this LGB pattern was clearly worn throughout the war.  Here is a very nice engraved example to Lt Robert Tuck Fistere from class 44-R.  He probably got this wing when he graduated from flight school, demonstrating that this LGB pattern was being used late in the war.

 

Not much information of Lt Fistere at this point, but I suspect he may have been too late to make it overseas to see any combat.

 

P

[pfrost]

Marty corrected me, it is actually 44-B not 44-R

[5thwingmarty]

WWII Pilot classes ran from A to K, with one experimental class X at Randolph Field that I am aware of.  This does not include the WASP classes.  The photo does make the B look like an R.

 

I really appreciate Patrick starting this thread.  I had never paid attention to how the feather details on the Lampl wings was so similar to the others.  I just can't bring myself to put the "hairy" Link/Amcraft wings in this family.  Yes it has high shoulders, but the feather details are just so different.  

[pfrost]

Oh oh... there is a missing Link in the woodpile!  LOL.  My only reason for including the Link is because there seems to have been some early relationship between AMCRAFT and their snowflake backs and some of the Link-made wings.  I have yet to really see any DIRECT indication that Link and Amcraft used the same dies--say a link with with an AMCRAFT hallmark or an AMCRAFT wing with a Link hallmark (but a number of bright collectors have made that argument, and I am not inclined to argue too much)

 

Here are some (what I believe to be) Link-made wings. The top 3 come from (likely) a salesman board, with the airship being from another source.  Link also seemed to have made an Adams type wing.  Maybe I will revisit this thread: