M 1860 sabre scabbard rings

[Maxrobot]

I was given this Model 1860 U.S. Cavalry sabre in about 1981. Many years later I set up a display of Civil War weapons and a friend commented that the scabbard rings were much closer together than the ones on my M1840 Wristbreaker.  .  Why are the rings spacing different than others I see on-line? My sabre has visible makers marks and only a worn  "U.S." is visible

 The blade length is 34 1/4", overall 40 3/4". Black leather wrapped grips, iron wire wrapping with last loo brass wire. the scabbard has the marking "J-C on the drag. the butt cap  and guard are stamped 505 with "D.R." on the butt cap.

 

[mikedon]

It looks like the scabbard for an Ames Model 1906 Cavalry Saber. The rings are about 4 inches apart and the top ring is 3 1/4 inches down from the throat on the 1906 scabbard. Most of the 1906 scabbards I have seen have a dark finish. The Model 1906 Saber has a steel guard and pommel.

[reschenk]

Yes, it is a M1906 scabbard.  The initials on the drag are those of James H. Clayton, the Army inspector.  The M1906 cavalry saber did not supplant the M1860, it supplemented it.  Both swords were used in the same units and apparently the scabbards often got mixed since many M1860s are found with M1906 scabbards and vice versa.

[Spathologist]

The rings were moved closer together to change the center of gravity if a saber strap came loose; with the M1860 spacing, the saber was dumped out of the scabbard if a strap broke or came loose.

 

 

[SARGE]

The rings on the M1906 saber were closer together due to a different style of saber slings being worn.  The later slings were made with a single belt attachment which put the suspension ring  snaps closer together.  The M1840 style slings consisted of two separate leather straps that attached to the belt independently and were therefore spaced further apart.  The exception (there is always an exception it seems} is for the Civil War period Stewart saber hangers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Spathologist]

14 hours ago, SARGE said:

The rings on the M1906 saber were closer together due to a different style of saber slings being worn.  The later slings were made with a single belt attachment which put the suspension ring  snaps closer together. 

 

I had heard this too, but...

 

[SARGE]

Yes, the chicken or the egg.  It is probably correct that moving the scabbard suspension rings closer together necessitated the design of the new leather slings.  For whatever reason, and this order seems to identify that, the slings changed.  Here are  some other examples of slings with a single belt attachment.

 

 

[Spathologist]

7 hours ago, SARGE said:

Yes, the chicken or the egg.  It is probably correct that moving the scabbard suspension rings closer together necessitated the design of the new leather slings.  For whatever reason, and this order seems to identify that, the slings changed.  Here are  some other examples of slings with a single belt attachment.

 

 

I guess I'm not understanding your point, because the single-point saber attachment was mandated in the 1885 regulations, two decades before the scabbard mod.  In chicken-or-egg, the single-point saber attachment definitely came first, and the new design apparently worked satisfactorily with the old-style rings since they didn't change anything for twenty years.  

 

In any case, no matter the length or proximity of the saber straps, if the bottom ring is below the center of gravity and the top strap comes loose, the scabbard will tip and dump the saber out. 

 

If you have examples of the two scabbards, it's easily demonstrated by putting a saber in the old-style scabbard and holding it by the bottom ring.  It rapidly tips hilt-down and, in a loose-fitting scabbard, dumps the saber out.  Then, put the saber in the new-style scabbard and hold it by the bottom ring.  It stays upright.  

 

Moving the bottom ring above the center of gravity, as described in the memo, solves the tipping-and-dumping problem and, of necessity, brings the two rings closer.

[Maxrobot]

Thanks guys! Another mystery solved!