Japanese flag with US Marines signatures

[treehstn]

Hi everyone!

 

I have a silk flag that has the signatures of US Marines on it instead of a Japanese soldier and their family.  From the research I've done it appears that most flags have the Japanese signatures on it and if it has US signatures instead there are usually only a few.  Am I correct in that assumption?

 

I looked up about 10 of the names and found one unit that was in common with all of them.  It is the 2nd Battalion, 27th Marines, 5th Marine Division, c/o Fleet Post Office. Can anyone shed more light on this flag, tell a little more of the story that I don't know?

 

Thank you!

 

Cheryl Webber

[treehstn]

I found this history of the fleet post office.  The Marines on the flag are from the San Francisco office.  Does that mean they were never overseas?

 

https://www.history.navy.mil/research/library/research-guides/postal-service-papers/usn-fleet-post-office-sf-souvenir-book.html

 

[dhcoleterracina]

First, the flag itself looks like a legit WW2 era Japanese flag. I have some that have no signatures from either side, pretty common. I have never seen so many names sign a flag and with more research, I think a picture will emerge regarding a common unit. I've had great luck using a website called "Findagrave". Many attached obits give service history. It will take time, might be a good Covid project. Where did you get it? 

 

My great uncle brought home a rising sun Japanese flag, very large and I'm the current caretaker. One day while checking the names written on it I found that my uncle had signed it. He was about 10 in 1945 so signatures can be wartime and years later (like the Declaration of Independence?). 

[treehstn]

44 minutes ago, dhcoleterracina said:

I have never seen so many names sign a flag and with more research, I think a picture will emerge regarding a common unit. I've had great luck using a website called "Findagrave". Many attached obits give service history. It will take time, might be a good Covid project. Where did you get it? 

We got it in a box lot of Marine stuff at an estate sale auction.  As I wrote above, all of the names I picked to get a sample of what units they were in came back with one unit in common to all of them.  The 2nd Battalion, 27th Marines, 5th Marine Division, c/o Fleet Post Office. But that unit was in San Francisco, Cal and I doubt they deployed as a unit out of country.  I might be wrong.....  Trying to speculate on how this flag came about.  Maybe it was a blank one someone brought back and then this unit signed it stateside... or ??

[dhcoleterracina]

27th Marines fought at Iwo Jima. 

[patrick_usmc]

"c/o" Fleet Post Office, means "care of", that's not a part of the unit designation. The unit is just the 2nd Battalion of the 27th Marine Regiment of the Fifth Marine Division, who were on Iwo Jima. 

 

If I were you, I'd research all of the names on the flag. That way you can see if all were in the unit at the same time (for instance, if a lot of guys who are on the flag joined the unit in July 1945, you know this flag was more likely acquired after that time, and it helps fill out the story a bit more). 

 

It depends on the names, of course, but "captured on Iwo Jima" certainly looks like a possibility here. Neat flag!  

 

Also, to be honest, I've never really thought about why the muster rolls were in the "care of" the Fleet Post Office, but I've seen it before - does anybody know? I guess I always just assumed it was a forwarding address type situation. 

 

Hope this helps! 

[treehstn]

1 hour ago, patrick_usmc said:

"c/o" Fleet Post Office, means "care of", that's not a part of the unit designation. The unit is just the 2nd Battalion of the 27th Marine Regiment of the Fifth Marine Division, who were on Iwo Jima. 

 

Also, to be honest, I've never really thought about why the muster rolls were in the "care of" the Fleet Post Office, but I've seen it before - does anybody know? I guess I always just assumed it was a forwarding address type situation. 

 

Hope this helps! 

Here's a screen shot of the actual muster roll so you can see what they wrote.  They were payroll & personnel documents.  They showed when people were paid, how much and when they were transferred to different units.  The CW rolls were more inclusive of all of that info on each roll.  It appears that in later years they used more than one kind of document to show all that info. 

 

I would be willing to bet that you are correct about the post office not being part of the unit designation and only a reference to where the muster rolls needed to be mailed to be processed.  Maybe it was to designate San Francisco instead of the east coast.  I think there were only 2 post offices that processes all the mail coming from and going out to the field. One on the west coast, one on the east.  Lots of speculation on my part!

I'm a genealogist and family historian.  I'm absolutely going to do research on each of the names, put it in a binder and it will go with the buyer when I get around to selling it...

[treehstn]

This is a list of what muster rolls Ancestry.com has for one of the Marines on the flag.  I should be able to narrow down the dates, like you suggested.  One that I looked up only had one muster roll with the same unit....

[patrick_usmc]

You also may want to cross check the names against the USMC Casualty Cards, and search some valor award databases. With that many names, there may be some that fall on either of those lists. 
 

Being with 2/27 in January 1945 (pre Iwo Jima), and in April 1945 (post Iwo Jima), it’s safe to say that Austin Montgomery was there. 
(Looking at findagrave.com, he actually has an obituary saying he was with Fox Company, 2/27 at Iwo Jima). 

Perhaps that’s why! I know it’s on some rolls and not others, and we might not ever know - good thing it isn’t consequential! 

 

This will be a great research project! Thanks for sharing the flag, and let us know how it turns out! 

[jangle]

It's been my past experience's that what you probably have is a "reunion" flag.  Most units would have a 5, 10, 25 year reunion etc. Someone brings an original flag for all to sign as a keepsake.  Notice how most all the signatures are nice and neat, signed mostly with the same pen.  These do make a fascinating research project and an awesome framed display hanging on your wall! 

[devildog34]

My grandfather was with E Co. 2nd Bn 27th Marines WIA at Iwo March 10, 1945.  I have done a lot of research on this unit.  It'd be really interesting to see some of the names and see if I recognize them.