6th Division Brodie Helmet. Thoughts?

[The Rooster]

Greetings all.

Your thoughts please on this 6th division rimless Brodie ?

 

Thank you.

[hink441]

Looks like a rimless British Brodie. Is there any markings on the underside of the brim?

 

Is there any indication there was ever a rim on the edge of the brim?

 

Does a magnet stick to the helmet?

 

Chris

[The Rooster]

All I have is the pictures for now. They are not the best.

I cant see any evidence of a rim from the images provided.

[Bugme]

The rimless brodies are a bit rare. Often, rimmed bodies, were unrimmed when they were refurbished and reissued, thus making them not a true rimless. You will know once in hand if you can see any old rim markings.

[The Rooster]

Thank you Scott, and Chris.

I got it in and here are the new better pictures. I dont see any sign of a rim having been there.

It is not Magnetic.

It has some kind of painted stencil inside the crown that I cannot make out?

The last pic is of a normal rimmed brodie for comparison.

The heat stamp is hard to read .. I think its HS 256 ?

 

 

 

[aef1917]

The stencil inside the dome is the actual heat number, as opposed to the lot number on the rim.

[The Rooster]

28 minutes ago, aef1917 said:

The stencil inside the dome is the actual heat number, as opposed to the lot number on the rim.

Thats different? Is it not? Wow , thank you kindly. i was really hoping that you would take a look at this.

Did they do the stencil to most all brodie helmets? Looks like 4 characters and a period. ?

If you would be so kind, what is your opinion on this one?

I know you are an authority on these kind as I have read your comments on this and other forums.

Is it not being magnetic a bad thing? The shape of it is not like my others.

Thank you.

Dave

 

 

[The Rooster]

Does anyone know what I have here? Is it a true rimless brodie?

 

Opinions?

 

Anyone?

[aef1917]

I have located several different sets of British helmet specifications, all of which are slightly different, depending on the helmet model.  The most relevant one to this helmet calls for the steel manufacturer's and the presser's initials along with the "cast number" of the steel to be stamped on the helmet rim.  On the examples I have seen where the stenciled number in the dome is visible, the number does not match with the rim stamping, so it seems that there was some sort of translation involved.  Documentation shows that the majority of the aspects of manufacture of British helmets were copied wholesale by the US for the m1917 helmet, and the differences between heat and lot number are very clear in US documents.  US steel heat number 26535 translated to helmet lot number 37, which was the number stamped on the rim, so a similar scheme of linking heat or cast numbers to helmet lot numbers is very likely for British helmets as well.  An example of a US helmet with the heat number stenciled on the interior can be seen in fig. 143A on p. 197 in Helmets and Body Armor in Modern Warfare. 

 

The various rimless British helmets include the Type A, Type B, War Office Pattern and a transitional Mk. I.  The first three all have a six-tongue oilcloth liner and various other attributes that separate them from the Mk. I, which has the style of liner that the US copied for the m1917.  The key attributes that indicate that this example is a transitional rimless Mk. I are the liner and the wide chinstrap loops.  There has been much speculation by collectors regarding the significance of the magnetic/non-magnetic nature of various British helmets, none of which is supported by documentation.  While it is true that the Type A and Type B helmets were made of magnetic mild steel, the specifications only required that the finished helmets passed ballistic testing.   As such, a variety of different steel alloys were used, some of which were magnetic and others not.

 

I don't see anything to indicate that this example is anything but a transitional rimless Mk I helmet.  It's uncommon to see one issued to US troops, but I have examples from the 1st, 26th, 89th and probably a few other divisions I'm forgetting about.  The insignia looks good to me, and a faker would have to be a complete idiot to try to increase the value of a rimless Mk I by painting a very common US division insignia on it.

[The Rooster]

BY Golly Thank you !

I really appreciate and value your input. I had read some where in another post where you mentioned some rimless that were rare, marked with the 6th division and another

division which I cant remember at the moment.

Thank you again Sir !

[The Rooster]

I just picked up a new one today !

Rimless 6th division, and it has the liner and chinstrap !

 

Cheers !

[GLCC74]

Nice helmet, I have a similar one, the heat stamp HS stood for Hadfield Ltd of Sheffield, which was one of the steel suppliers for these helmets. 

[The Rooster]

And here they are in their spot. Looks like the newest one was coated at some point on the outside with varnish......

[hink441]

Very nice!!