Help with identifying WW1 group of female soldiers: National Service School

[Renegade]

HI, Can anyone Identify this group of ladies? Near as I can tell  it is ww1 era and the one lady in the back is wearing first sergeant stipes and of course and officer in the front. Could they be  a group of "Hello girls" in training?

 

[bunkerhillburning]

Nice photo - will be interested to learn more myself.  What is a " Hello girl" ? I have never heard the expression before.

[patches]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello_Girls

[bertmedals]

11 hours ago, Renegade said:

HI, Can anyone Identify this group of ladies? Near as I can tell  it is ww1 era and the one lady in the back is wearing first sergeant stipes and of course and officer in the front. Could they be  a group of "Hello girls" in training?

 

I'd say "hello girls" in formation at pre-deployment training as well -- sure looks like Grace Banker at the head of the formation.

[Renegade]

Hi bertmedals, You could be right concerning Grace Banker (Picture below), the two do resemble each other. The second photo is supposedly of her group of operators.

 

[Renegade]

 

Grace on far right

Grace second from right

[bertmedals]

Agree -- they do resemble each other.  I'd mark it as a tentative ID and look additional corroborating info, perhaps correlating the location.

 

Excellent photo, BTW.

[Renegade]

bunkerhillburning below is a link that has a exhaustive section on the "Hello girls". Has a ton of photos and info.

 

https://www.gjenvick.com/index.html

[Renegade]

Below is a amazing link of video footage on the signal corps and some video of Hello Girls staring at about the 7 minute mark and clearly Grace Banker at the 7:50 mark. You need to scroll through to page 13 to find the video.   https://catalog.archives.gov/id/25002    

SIGNAL CORPS ACTIVITIES [FRANCE, 1918] (archives.gov)

[mars&thunder]

Great photo. I'm interested to see what you find out. There were a number of women's military style organizations during this period, and it could be one of those if it can't be matched with the Hello Girls.

[gwb123]

From what I know of the Signal Corps Female Telephone Operators, I don't believe field uniforms such as seen in the posted photo were ever associated with them.

 

The uniforms I have seen have been blue, and more suitable for office work.  Also I cannot find mention that they were required to take field training.  They were hired for their technical skills.

 

The Wikipedia article has an interesting note:   "The women were required to purchase their own kits, including uniforms, shoes, hats, and insignia, at a cost between $250 and $350, because they were told that their status was similar to officers who required individually-fitted uniforms; the monthly salary for most positions was $60."

 

The attached photos are from the National World War I Mueum in Kansas City.

[Renegade]

gwb123, I did find this reference today concerning uniforms of the "Hello Girls":

 

Uniforms for Operators

Telephone operators are needed for duty abroad with the American forces; young women who are physically fit, who speak both French and English fluently, and who are willing to be sent abroad.

It is preferred they should have had experience in telephone switchboard operating, but opportunity to learn this will be offered in case an insufficient number apply who are skilled in both telephony and French.

The women selected will have uniforms of the same olive-drab as worn by officers and men in the army. The unit of telephone operators now being organized is the only unit composed of women which will actually wear army insignia.

The uniform will include the army campaign hat, with the signal corps hat-cord, a long olive- drab cape, a medium-length coat on the same general lines as the present army service coat, an English walking-skirt, and tan shoes.

The salaries offered range from fifty dollars for substitutes, sixty dollars for local operators and toll operators, and seventy-two dollars for supervisors, to a hundred and twenty-five dollars for chief operators, plus, in each instance, rations and quarters as accorded army nurses.

Transportation will be furnished from their homes to Washington, and of course from Washington to the point abroad to which they will be sent.

-- Telephone Engineer Management, February 1918, p. 91

 

 

This reference does give some credibility that the photo might be of a group of "Hello girls". If it is actually Grace Banker and the first group to go overseas- they might have actually been issued OD army uniforms to begin with and later issued the blue uniform we commonly see.

[Renegade]

Another Reference:

 

Indeed, "Black Jack's girls" were sworn in twice, but none of them signed a contract stating that she was serving in a civilian capacity, which was to present problems after the war. No such agreement existed. The officer in charge of recruitment acknowledged later that the enlistment of these women was not done in the manner prescribed by the adjutant general.

He did not prepare a formal contract as envisioned by the War Department, and he did not notify the recruits that they were to be considered contract civilian employees. The officer's main goal was to enlist the women Gen. Pershing required. This goal was achieved, although the Army ignored legal technicalities.

The women purchased uniforms, just as male officers did, which cost about $500. Consisting of one summer and one winter suit, black or russet shoes, a hat, overcoat, rubber raincoat, and brown Army boots, their uniforms were almost identical to those of the Signal Corps male members, with the substitution of skirts for breeches.

The uniforms had regulation Army buttons, and operators, supervisors, and chief operators were distinguished by different insignia on the white brassard worn on the left arm. Like other personnel who served with the armed forces overseas, the women were instructed to send their civilian wardrobes home.

 

Karen L. Hillerich, "'Black Jack's Girls," in Army Magazine, Arlington: Association of the U.S. Army, Vol. 32, No. 12, December 1982.

[Renegade]

If this is is fact the first group of Hello Girls and Grace Banker in the originally posted photo, below would be the same group. Can anyone match Faces really well? Grace being the center sitting.

 

[gwb123]

2 hours ago, Renegade said:

 

The women selected will have uniforms of the same olive-drab as worn by officers and men in the army. The unit of telephone operators now being organized is the only unit composed of women which will actually wear army insignia.

The uniform will include the army campaign hat, with the signal corps hat-cord, a long olive- drab cape, a medium-length coat on the same general lines as the present army service coat, an English walking-skirt, and tan shoes.

 

 

That may have been the original plan, but if you do a Google Images search for "Signal Corps Female Telephone Operators Uniforms", all of photos of surviving uniforms are blue.  That includes the one belonging to Grace Banker, now also in the hands of the National World War I Museum.

 

The photo above shows the difference in color shade between the male officers and the darker color the women are wearing. 

 

https://www.theworldwar.org/learn/women/grace-banker

 

Another example in the hands of Smithsonian's National Museum of American History.

 

https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_335411

 

[Renegade]

gwb123, You misunderstand, It is without a doubt that the "Hello Girls" wore a blue uniform like you pictured and in all the pictures I have posted except the  very first. That first Picture is the one in question. Is that first photo, a group of "Hello Girls"? If it is not then who are they? If it is a group of them, they are wearing standard military issue of the time (except for maybe the skirt). I have also shared a couple references that the army intended to issue them standard military issue, know this intention obviously did not last long because we find so many Blue uniforms. So, again could this first photo be of a group of "Hello girls" at the very beginning of their joining the army before they switched to the blue? To add, there are several references as well that the girls went thru a very short military training (several weeks) course- to learn self defense, wearing of gas mask ,etc. Could this photo be of that short training period?

[gwb123]

I've thought more about this and am starting to think you might be right.

 

As you noted, I took it from the stand point of if these are not the "Hello Girls", then who are they?

 

According to various websites, the only other large cadre of women to serve with the US Army in World War I were the Army Nurse Corps.  However, I cannnot find photographs showing the nurses wearing such uniforms in training.

 

The other, remote possibility is that this was a state or local militia unit.  Believe it or not there was actually some gawd awful thing called America's Women's Death Battalion, apparently formed in Massachusetts. It was named after units formed in Czarist Russia.  A photo exists of women enrolled in this American unit, but they are so rag tag they do not appear to be to the same standards as those in your photo.  In fact, they look so unkempt I don't even want to post it here.  https://nypost.com/2018/11/12/the-mighty-women-of-world-war-i/#1

 

I considered whether these could have been the female Marines that were recruited late in the war, but the NCO chevrons do not appear to be a USMC rank.

 

Lastly I considered the possibility of a post WWI, interwar years organization.  I did a quick read through of the book Women in the Military by Jeanne M. Holm, and apparently as far as the Army was concerned, there were no such organizations.  (Although there were studies made about future organizations for women either within the Army or attached to it as an auxillery as the later WAACs were.)

 

I also considered whether this was a CCC unit for women.  While such organizations existed (sometimes referred to as "she-she-she" units), they apparently did not wear military style uniforms.  These WWI style uniforms would have been out of fashion by the time the CCC was formed in any case. 

 

Your note about "the girls went thru a very short military training (several weeks) course- to learn self defense, wearing of gas mask ,etc." is something I had not yet run across.  This would certainly be the type of clothing you would want for that.  The use of military rank really threw me off, but it may have been discontinued at a later date.

 

So, if these indeed are Signal Corps Female Telephone Operators, this is a rare photograph.  I've searched all over the internet looking for a similar on.  I even searched using "Camp Franklin" as a filter, and nothing similar came up.

 

It makes me wonder if this was the first class of these Operators, and if the subsequent second and third groups also had to endure the same training? 

 

The missing link here is when the decision was made to change from Army regulation OD uniforms to the blue uniforms.  Interestingly, a lot of the official accounts of these women slavishly repeat that they wore uniforms identical to the Army.  As we agree, in the end, they did not, but somehow this is being missed in these accounts.

 

So, for now, let's assume we have a valid premise that these are very possibly the Hello Girls in training.  We will have to see if someone else comes up with an alternate theory.

[mars&thunder]

With regard to quasi-military women's units form this period, I am attaching an article (in two pieces due to snip tool limitations - sorry about the small size) written in 1915 that describes a women's regiment called the Columbians raised in the NY City. I have seen other articles about this unit going out for a week of summer training in the field. The uniform described in the attached article is similar to the one in your photo. I have also seen another Columbian's uniform description that mentions a "soft shirt". I am not saying your photo is the Columbians; I am merely calling attention to the fact that there were uniformed women's units in that period that wore similar uniforms, so you have to be very careful with any ID you associate to this photo. There were many more organized women's military units in the years 1870 - 1916 than anyone today imagined existed.

 

 

[Renegade]

GWB 123, I have seen the photo you mentioned concerning a  women's death battalion. Without being able to find any other evidence concerning the photo below or any info of a US version of a death battalion, I had taken it in the past as a group of young ladies wearing their Boyfriends or family members hat,  Jacket or coat for fun and someone with a little historical imagination added a story line to the photo. They look rather unkempt to say the least.

 

[bertmedals]

On 10/1/2021 at 8:50 PM, Renegade said:

gwb123, I did find this reference today concerning uniforms of the "Hello Girls":

 

Uniforms for Operators

Telephone operators are needed for duty abroad with the American forces; young women who are physically fit, who speak both French and English fluently, and who are willing to be sent abroad.

It is preferred they should have had experience in telephone switchboard operating, but opportunity to learn this will be offered in case an insufficient number apply who are skilled in both telephony and French.

The women selected will have uniforms of the same olive-drab as worn by officers and men in the army. The unit of telephone operators now being organized is the only unit composed of women which will actually wear army insignia.

The uniform will include the army campaign hat, with the signal corps hat-cord, a long olive- drab cape, a medium-length coat on the same general lines as the present army service coat, an English walking-skirt, and tan shoes.

The salaries offered range from fifty dollars for substitutes, sixty dollars for local operators and toll operators, and seventy-two dollars for supervisors, to a hundred and twenty-five dollars for chief operators, plus, in each instance, rations and quarters as accorded army nurses.

Transportation will be furnished from their homes to Washington, and of course from Washington to the point abroad to which they will be sent.

-- Telephone Engineer Management, February 1918, p. 91

 

 

This reference does give some credibility that the photo might be of a group of "Hello girls". If it is actually Grace Banker and the first group to go overseas- they might have actually been issued OD army uniforms to begin with and later issued the blue uniform we commonly see.

Getting back to identifying the originally posted photo, and following up on and reinforcing Renegade's two posts in this thread in which he notes the possible temporary use of the OD uniform, I noticed several relevant things in one of the websites cited in the responses (https://www.gjenvick.com/index.html).   

The first was the memo from the Army’s Chief Signal Officer which establishes the origins of the olive drab uniform for the “Hello Girls” and the fact that it was a proposed uniform and not yet approved.

Here is the quote from the memo:
“The uniform will be made of Olive Drab material, the same as that worn by officers and enlisted men of the United States Army. The uniform will consist of campaign hat, with Signal Corps hat cord, long Olive Drab cape, medium length coat, with of course, the necessary modifications, on the same general line as the present army service coat with English walking skirt and tan shoes.

 

The above uniform has been proposed but has not been officially accepted [my emphasis]. However, it is thought that it will be accepted, with a few minor changes. This will be the only unit composed of women Which will actually wear Army insignia.”

The second comes from an article written by Grace Banker, “I Was a Hello Girl” (1977) and another from the Bell Telephone News (1918).  Both indicate that the blue uniform was directed by the Army War College, then acting as the strategic planning arm of the Army General Staff.

Describing the departure of the 33 women in “Hello Girls” unit 1, Grace Banker wrote “March 6—sailing at last! Thirty-three Signal Corps girls in the trim navy- blue uniform and smart overseas cap prescribed by the Army War College at Washington.” [my emphasis]

The Bell Telephone article states similarly, “Every member of the organization must wear a standard uniform that has been specified by the War College.” [my emphasis]

I suspect the decision to adopt the blue uniform was made to underscore that the “Hello Girls” were not soldiers, as the originally proposed OD uniform might indicate, but civilians – something that took 60 years and Congressional action to correct. There does appear to have been a good deal of legal wrangling in the War Department on this point with the "letter of the law" being accepted at the time.

In the rush to get the AEF to France, many actions were initiated before final decisions were made with the understanding they would be corrected later.  This was done to meet the necessarily tight timelines for getting the AEF into the field.  This occurred with a large number of issues as the U. S. geared up for war. I suspect that the temporary use of the OD uniform was just one of those actions.

This suggests to me that the photo shows the 33 women of “Hello Girls” Unit 1 in the Signal Corps’ proposed uniform while in training before deployment and prior to the War College’s decision on the final uniform. The OD uniform in the photo was an expediency to get the effort going and meet General Pershing’s requirements.

If that turns out to be true, the photo could be one of possibly very few that show the first unit of the “Hello Girls” and the wearing a very short-lived uniform. This, in my view, makes it even more interesting considering the historical relavance.

 

Dennis
 

[mars&thunder]

The original photo has an X over one of the women. Is there a woman's name on the back of the photo?

[Renegade]

 

I was able this morning to find a shot of the back of the photo (post card). It is a post card dated May 25th, 1918. This would indicate the photo at least is dated to be taken prior to that date. I have attempted to decipher the hand writing - it reads:

 

There is another cross above another Ill. (Illinois) girls head. Everything going fine. But we are so busy when not drilling. Am glad I came for it means more then I ever can tell .

Love - W. C. Cutter

 

 

Please correct me if you believe I have read the note wrong. 

 

 

 

 

So this raises a few points and obviously more questions. 

Does the Washington DC post mark indicate a mailing from overseas ??

From my understanding of post cards of the era, some were made as a sole representation to send to love ones (as in studio photos/post cards) and others were made in bulk to be purchased at a PX (or other) for ease of sending a note home and not necessarily an indication that the sender has a close personal connection to the photo on the post card.

From the statement of a cross over a Ill. girls head - I would assume a girl she new had passed away and was in the same unit- ( Spanish Flu, accident or? ).

The name W.C. Cutter I could not find on any roles of those names sent on overseas assignments as a "Hello girl". Having said that- Some 233 were sent overseas but apparently 450 went through training. Perhaps W.C. Cutter was not selected for overseas but did go thought the training.

        

         Of approximately 1,750 applicants, the Army trained 450 women, and 233 ultimately sent overseas to serve as telephone operators. Colloquially dubbed "Hello Girls," these women were primarily stationed in England and France (and Germany after the Armistice was signed); some were stationed to work on the front lines in locations such as Saint Mihiel and Souilly, France.

Susan Thompson, CECOM Command Historian, "Hello Girls of World War 1," 27 March 1920. https://www.army.mil/article/234046/hello_girls_of_world_war_i Retrieved 26 March 1921.

 

The note also mentions she spent time drilling, that would indicate that the sender was more likely in the military versus a Community organization like the red cross or YWCA, etc.

 

As mars and suspenders mentions there appears to be a faint x above one of the girls, this might be the sender or it may have been on the original photo before being copied onto a post card?

[Renegade]

 

A couple of more clues- it appears two of the women have some sort of bright color insignia. The women in front and one of the three in the very back.

 

 

 

The two with the insignia and one other woman ( cant see her left collar) also in the back row are wearing  jackets while all the others appear to be wearing standard issue shirts only. The three women wearing jackets and the one with the first sergeant stripes would again indicate a rank structure confined to the army versus a community service organization. 

 

 

[Renegade]

 

The Photo below shows a uniform that closely resembles the one being worn by three of the women (one in front and two in back). It does differ in the shape of the collar and a insignia added to the top of the shoulder and a different band around the base of the sleeve. Also the insignia in the original photo found on the shirt collar and here a insignia is on the jacket (unable to tell if the insignia is the same). This is from the Smithsonian website. It lists the uniform as being a "Uniform of Major on Staff and Supervisor of Instruction". The title of "supervisor of Instruction" could be possible for the photo in question for the three individuals, but I am unaware of the exact meaning of "Major on staff". 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bertmedals]

52 minutes ago, Renegade said:

 

The Photo below shows a uniform that closely resembles the one being worn by three of the women (one in front and two in back). It does differ in the shape of the collar and a insignia added to the top of the shoulder and a different band around the base of the sleeve. Also the insignia in the original photo found on the shirt collar and here a insignia is on the jacket (unable to tell if the insignia is the same). This is from the Smithsonian website. It lists the uniform as being a "Uniform of Major on Staff and Supervisor of Instruction". The title of "supervisor of Instruction" could be possible for the photo in question for the three individuals, but I am unaware of the exact meaning of "Major on staff". 

 

I think the full title for the uniform you are referring to is "Uniform of Major on Staff and Supervisor of Instruction, First National Service School".  

 

You can find the history of the uniform collection pictured here: https://womenshistory.si.edu/spotlight/women-in-wwi/women-s-uniforms

 

But to the point, the First National Service School was founded in 1916 by Elizabeth Elcott Poe and Vylla Poe Wilson in Chevy Chase, Maryland. 

 

Here is a quote describing it from this website: https://americanhistory.si.edu/blog/satin-khaki-women-join-military-preparedness-movement-1916

 

"The First National Service School was founded in early 1916 by Elizabeth Elcott Poe and Vylla Poe Wilson in Chevy Chase, Maryland. The camp opened in May 1916 to great fanfare; President Wilson and high-ranking officials in the Navy, Marine Corps, and Army attended the opening ceremony. For the next three years, the First National Service School held four two- to three-week camps and trained uniformed women, offering classes including "national defense," "good citizenship," and "American history." By the spring of 1919, nearly 4,000 women representing 43 states had graduated from the First National Service School. The large-scale encampments were referred to as the "female Plattsburg" movement."

 

The website article also says that "the First National Service School was organized under the auspices of the Women's Section of the Navy League" which would explain the Navy style cuff rank on the woman standing at the front of the formation in the original photo that started this post.  

 

So with that uniform connection, the photo could possibly be of a First National Service School encampment rather than "Hello Girls".

 

Dennis