XM9 Trials Bayonets; Phrobis, Royal Ordnance, S-Tron, Imperial, Marto, Eickhorn, Ontario; Post related photos, information, and documents here, please!

October 11, 2021

Wholly smokes, crayj! I thought A08 was best example of a Phrobis XM9 I've seen in existence but A17 is the absolute crème de la crème of a Phrobis XM9'. I love the 'Accessory/M-9 pistol magazine pouch' note. Thanks for sharing!

I think this thread could be a good means of ID'ing/tracking legit XM9's; collectors could cross reference and compare against photos of real XM9's. Hopefully, through the years we get some good examples posted.

October 13, 2021

Here's an interesting Homer Brett letter with some poor quality xerox'd follow-on photos referencing the British L3A1 (SA80) bayonet and the relationship to the US XM9 bayonet trials.

October 13, 2021

Here's the link to the "History of Phrobis and M9 Bayonets," the 1992 S.A.B.C. Homer Brett info posted on 'MOCITMAN's' website ... I couldn't pull the link previously because GV's site was down for maintenance. Anyway, this is a clearer more readable pdf. than the jpg's I posted previously.

https://mocityman.com/content/M9Resources/SABCJournalArticleOnPhrobisM9Part1to4.compressed.pdf

October 16, 2021

Gents, Here's a Mickey FInn Phrobis XM9, Number A25. This XM9 has a few peculiarities … The grip doesn't appear to be original, (see the grip comparison photo with XM9 numbered A8); the locking latch mechanism on the pommel is broken and there is pink writing on the scabbard (A-25) and within the fuller of the blade (NU-149). I'm not sure what that number designation on the blade means nor the significance, if any, of the pink color. Anyone out there savvy on this? Photos courtesy of Frank Trzaska.

October 17, 2021

Here's some great Homer Brett info on three different types of Royal Ordnance XM9's designed for the 1996 U.S. Army XM9 bayonet trials. -Drew

October 20, 2021

Here are my own two Phrobis XM9s. The first five photos are a standard PXM9 which was never submitted to the trials. Although the US Army solicitation called for 55 examples from each manufacturer, Phrobis made a small number of additional bayonets for destructive testing and spares. Bill Porter stated to me this one came directly from Micky Finn when Bill had gone to visit him on a "fact-finding" trip to California. The pair of USMC M9A1 trials pieces I have also came by the same route.

The second PXM9, photos 6 thru 10, bears the external wire-cutter scabbard/suspension. Only twenty of these were produced but only some were ever outfitted with a PXM9. Some few were given out to various people whom were influential in the XM9 Trials testing. The Army liked this version, but the excessive weight ruled it out as a candidate for testing.

October 21, 2021

Wow pwcosol! Awesome examples; thank you very much for posting! I really like that external wire cutter system too! I have it's brother, a Buckmaster wirecutter scabbard with a two strap prototype pouch.

mocityman was telling me to be careful if I buy an XM9; recommending to have it authenticated prior to purchase. The one I'm getting has been all over Bill Porter's social media, so I'm not going to worry about its legitimacy. However, I think the close up photos you and crayj provided help immensely. Especially, so people can compare the differences against production Phrobis M9s or rebuilds. I've seen XM9/29 'blades only' on legacy worthpoint posts.

pwcosol, maybe you can answer this ... mocityman was asking me if the horizontal strap that holds the pouch against the wire cutter scabbard is actually sewn to the pouch like a production pouch or if the horizontal strap is an independent strap that runs through a belt-loop style loop behind the pouch and around the scabbard body? Of course I can't answer this, I've never seen the reverse side of an XM9 wire cutter pouch. The reason mocityman asks this question is because he has a pouch that looks exactly like the pouch in your photos but the pouch has a loop behind it rather than the horizontal strap sewn to it.

I saw that USMC M9A1 set of yours too; also very nice! I haven't gotten there yet but I did recently acquire a 1993 USMC long tang riveted Buck M9.

October 21, 2021

Glad you guys liked the photos. Regarding the pouch on the external WC scabbard, the Velcro strap passes thru the vertical belt loop and is stitched vertically to the edges of the pouch. Though 20 of the external WCSs were made, many more suspensions were and likely a few more of the "paddle" Bianchi pouches ordered as well. When BUCK was leaving California and cleaning house, I heard tales of treasures thrown into the trash bins. Though this was not bayonets per se, I was told lots of off-spec, damaged, incomplete or rejected material was. Bill Porter tapped into one dumpster-diver whom made out pretty well. The first EWC set I had consisted of the complete scabbard/pouch/suspension as pictured. The bayonet was a never sharpened, Phrobis "three-line" (not ">") military bayonet which had a XM9 pommel cap/latch. This had been purchased off Micky Finn's "Product Board" he used to set up on occasion at the Great Western Fair show in Pomona, Ca. in the late 1980s-early 1990s by the former owner. Finn offered a number of bayonets/knives and accoutrements. Though I had no interest in such things at the time, I do recall seeing his displays.

So far as spurious XM9s go, I am sure you are aware of several unique features on the legitimate bayonets and scabbards which ought to serve to determine originality or not. I recall seeing a XM9 blade which came from the Camillus liquidation sale many years back. My guess is a couple more blades may have emanated from the Phrobis shop or dumpster later on.

October 22, 2021

pwcosol ... Thanks for the follow up! I think you made mocityman very happy! I got off the phone with him yesterday and filled him in on the info you posted; he may contact you. I told him to jump on the forum and share any transfer of XM9 info. Also, it's quite coincidental you mention the Camillus XM9 blades. I had a discussion with mocityman again about this very same topic just a few days ago.

BTW ... I've seen that unsharpened Phrobis three-line with the EWC scabbard you mentioned; I've always wondered what the backstory would be behind an unsharpened three-liner being built similar to an XM9 ... display purposes when inserted in the EWC scabbard, maybe??? Regardless, it's still a cool looking bayonet.

October 22, 2021

Caska174 said:

BTW ... I've seen that unsharpened Phrobis three-line with the EWC scabbard you mentioned; I've always wondered what the backstory would be behind an unsharpened three-liner being built similar to an XM9 ...

Mr Finn offered numerous left-overs, etc. for sale. This bayonet was one in which he utilized lremaining components to assemble (hence the XM9 pommel cap/latch). Recall Mr Finn was a inventor. He only entered into the Army XM9 Trials solicitation after he learned about it and his experience in designing blades for BUCK provided the expertise. His shop was in Oceanside, Ca. and that is where the XM9s and other models were made, but BUCK handled the actual Army contract. Undoubtedly there was a lot of exchanging of information, components, etc. going on...at least until Finn ultimately sold the "M9" designation and license to BUCK, formed "Phrobis Int'l", and each went their separate ways. My understanding is a degree of acrimony developed between Finn and BUCK which resulted in their doing so. Lastly, the loss of the second Army contract (of which LanCay was the recipient) spelled the end. The expectation was Phrobis/BUCK would receive it, thus they would finally make a decent financial return and help compensate for the initial capital expenditures made to manufacture the M9.

One aside to this was the creation of the Phrobis Product Improved M9. Mr Finn realized he had not incorporated a blade stop into the design to prevent over-travel when the bayonet was used in wire cutting mode. Thus he came up with two solutions. First was installation of the steel pin on the cutter plate. Second was the rebated rear edge of the blade left unsharpened. He offered to incorporate these two features into the Army contract at no additional cost, but the latter insisted no changes whatsoever would be accepted in the design. One may recall the complaint the Army lodged when the first batch of M9s arrived bearing the ">" (BUCK date code) on them. However, BUCK realized the wisdom in having the blade stop on their civilian (and all other) M9 variants as a preventative measure to avoid any product liability claims should someone lop off a finger! Only a few of these M9s were made, with only mine (#3) and #1 reported. Had the Army been more receptive, it is likely all subsequent M9s would look like the one pictured...

October 22, 2021

That's another great example of M9 history you have; I've definitely noticed #3 on M9M4.com (http://m9m4.com/index.cfm?currentpage=8). I understand these were the first PI production scabbards after the XM9 trials but after spending 30+ years in the Army I'm not surprised about 'Big Army's' stubbornness for change; adopting such an small safety modification would have taken years of bureaucracy to garner approval ... lol. I especially like the rebated relief cut on the back edge of the blade. It gives the M9 a completely new profile personality … very distinctive! Another rare M9 to throw on the bucket list.

October 22, 2021

Since we've been discussing the XM9 EWC Scabbard, this Homer Brett letter might be of interest.

November 4, 2021

On 10/22/2021 at 9:27 AM, Casca174 said:

That's another great example of M9 history you have; I've definitely noticed #3 on M9M4.com (http://m9m4.com/index.cfm?currentpage=8). I understand these were the first PI production scabbards after the XM9 trials but after spending 30+ years in the Army I'm not surprised about 'Big Army's' stubbornness for change; adopting such an small safety modification would have taken years of bureaucracy to garner approval ... lol. I especially like the rebated relief cut on the back edge of the blade. It gives the M9 a completely new profile personality … very distinctive! Another rare M9 to throw on the bucket list.

I have sent Fabrisi (a.k.a "Mr. Moon" & "M9M4.com") several photos for inclusion on his very informative website. He is very knowledgeable and we have been exchanging information and dialogues for several years. He owns #1 Phrobis Product Improved. I like your comment about "Big Army" (although as a former sergeant in the USMC I cannot truly relate). Also note the separated fingers of the hand on the warning decal...could not make it much clearer than that...! BTW, wanted to add this URL to the "frozen in time" Quarterbore M9 Website. This once was a very beneficial "watering hole" for BUCK & M9 collectors a decade ago. Unfortunately the site got hacked on more than one occasion and was often down for many months. It finally went the way of the dinosaur. The information might have been lost forever if Bill Porter had not intervened to preserve it. Unfortunately with his passing, I do not know what the future will be for it, but presently you can still read the posts and see some photos:

https://quarterboreforums.com/forums/

3,143 · November 6, 2021

Gary Cunningham did capture some information from both M9bayonet.com and quarterbore. I use the information Gary provided on his CD for reference and keep my copy of his book stored away so I'm not sure how much of that information is in his book.

Also it's exciting to watch all this new, (to me), information coming up on the more current bayonets.

November 7, 2021

pwcosol and sactroop ... As a new M9 collector, all those sites have been good sources for me to delve into despite some being defunct. M9M4.com has been a lot of help and is probably the most responsible for spurring my recent COVID quarantine bayonet hording habit with M9 bayonets and OKC USMC trials bayonets.

After being fortunate enough to have opportunity to procure a few different varieties of XM9's I wanted to investigate more info on them and considering the mystique of XM9's by collectors, I was surprised NOT to find any in-depth dedicated XM9 pages/forums/sites/books on all varieties of XM9's. I've found XM9s referenced in a few books but minimal info outlined; hence, the creation of this page in hopes knowledgeable people will post photos and as much relevant info as possible to preserve XM9 legacy.

Many of the XM9's I manage to find photos of seem to be linked to overseas collectors which corroborates what has been mentioned previously on this page. Despite XM9's being inherently rare based on limited numbers being manufactured and several damaged during the Army XM9 trials I think XM9's are especially rare in North America because it appears overseas power collectors seemed to have scooped up a good percentage of surviving XM9's decades ago.

November 7, 2021

Not too long ago I procured an unusual late model Phrobis M9 bayonet with an oddly modified Phrobis scabbard (it has a melted off Phrobis logo and commercial cutter plate) from the Bill Porter collection. What makes this relevant to XM9's is the accompanying Homer Brett letter posted below discusses three bayonets, the modified scabbard I just mentioned; an M9-A1 Desert Tan bayonet, and a British SA80 Bayonet/XM9 Army Trial competitor bayonet. Anyway, not much XM9 info is convey but interesting nonetheless and provides a slice of amplifying insight about the British XM9.

Furthermore, since I initially brought up this oddball bayonet/scabbard combo it may have peaked some curiosity by collectors that haven't seen something like this; I have yet to see one reference anywhere except in the HB narrative and on the HB information on the manila tag in the photo. Apologies for the bad lighting, these were taken in a camper ... lol.

November 14, 2021

Here are two examples of Eickhorn XM9 test bayonets with US Army trials markings applied on the scabbard. The Eickhorn XM9 is discussed on Frank Trzaska's website, usmilitaryknives.com, (http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/knife_knotes_6.htm) with the photo below of the bayonet that's stacked on top of the scabbard; the excerpt from Frank's site conveyed the following:

"This is my latest toy to be gathered up. One of the original test bayonets for the M9 bayonet trials. At first glance it appears to be another of the multitude of Eickhorn wire-cutting bayonets currently available on the retail market. It is the rudimentary model for the M-16A2, in green with rectangular handle, and the short bowie blade. The scabbard, also green, is in fact for the longer version of the Eickhorn products with a detachable clip at the frog. This allows the quick release of the scabbard to mate with the bayonet blade to fashion the wire-cutter. One can only guess that the longer scabbard was intended to contribute more effective leverage for wire-cutting. While most may think this is a 'high-tech' and 'trick' I think it is a waste of time. The typical Soldier will need a wire cutter like I will need another hole in my head. Just a gadget to increase the price of a basic article of equipment. The blade is unmarked save for an engraved "6" (Eickhorn's ID Number for the trials) on the reverse ricasso. The reverse side of the grip, near the guard is hand engraved "C 2" with an electric engraving pencil as is the front of the scabbard near the throat. This indicates that this was a bayonet number C 2 tested. The "NU - 59" painted on the scabbard is a code for a insufficiency during the test, in this case a cutter plate complication. Overall length of the bayonet is 6 3/4". Total length in the scabbard is 15 1/2"."

Photo credit obviously goes to Frank Trzaska; thanks, Frank!

November 17, 2021

Here is the external wire cutter scabbard pouch.

November 18, 2021

Very cool mocityman!

That pouch corresponds to what pwcosol was saying about the back of the XM9 pouch, minus the horizontal attachment strap that went through the 'belt loop' style webbing on the back and wrapped around the scabbard body. Since your pouch originally came from Mickey Finn, I'd say it's definitely an XM9 pouch that was made for the first design XM9 webgear backing for the XM9 wirecutter scabbard. Too coincidental not to be and it's the only pouch that has that distinctive shape and construction. According to Mickey Finn, supposedly, only 15 of those Phrobis XM9 pouches were made, so it's likely you have a very rare piece of Phrobis XM9 history. On the m9m4.com website, page 4, there is a Mickey Finn note referencing the rarity of these pouches.

January 7, 2022

Just to add slice to the XM9 story here's a January 1991 Homer Brett letter referencing most all of the XM9 vendor's (Phrobis, Royal Ordnance, Eickhorn, Marto) and how the scissors/wire cutting functionality of these bayonets are inherently linked with the design of the East German KM87 bayonet.

January 13, 2022

I couldn't wait to post what I think some M9 collectors consider the grail of M9 bayonets, a Phrobis XM9. I don't think there are too many of these things to be found in North America anymore; most scooped up by foreign collectors and I was fortunate to have the opportunity to obtain this gem.

Anyway, I just got this Phrobis XM9 sample in from Frank Trzaska, number #A8, also part of the late Bill Porter's (RIP) collection. Many of you may recognize #A8 from Bill's postings, so it has a little notoriety. I was happy to find the obligatory XM9 note in the pouch ("ACCESSORY/M-9 PISOL MAGAZINE POUCH") and the barb wire test sample ... very cool bonus of Phrobis XM9 memorabilia.

#A8 is in phonemonial condition for it's age' You can really see some of the hallmark XM9 characteristics, i.e. no screw recesses in the cutter plate; M-7 type of pommel; uncharacteristic grip mold, etc.

Enjoy!

January 13, 2022

That is about as nice as it gets, congratulations!

You are amassing quite a collection of M9 and related knives. I encourage you to do a book. I asked Bill Porter the same thing several times in past years, but I he never got around to doing it. Food for thought.

January 14, 2022

Slufstuff ... Thanks for the encouragement! I think our partner in crime, 'mocityman' is probably more credentialed to write a book about M9's than I am. Although I have been fortunate enough to procure a few key M9's and rare bayonets that was just due to the 'stars' being aligned in my favor; I'm only a novice collector and definitely no authority on this stuff.

January 14, 2022

Wow, #A24 comes up on the radar ... again! Whoo hoo! I'm glad it still resides in the US.

It looks like Ron Riede of Bayonet Trader is the current custodian of #A24 which previously resided in Bill Porter's collection. Ron's got a great website with lots of available bayonets at: https://bayonetsonline.com/index.html

Moreover, Ron just sent me these photos today to post on usmilitariaforum.com so it's very much appreciated that he's sharing a unique piece of XM9 history which locks-in some photographic details of a known Phrobis XM9. I asked Ron if he had the "ACCESSORY/M-9 PISTOL MAGAZINE POUCH" note or the barbed wire sample cut??? He said he didn't even check the pouch and will get back to me soon ... fingers crossed.

BTW ... calling all XM9 owners ... post your XM9's here, please!

January 15, 2022

Gents,

I hope everyone is safe and sound out there with all the craziness we have going on nowadays!

Well, it's been XM9 galore lately ... here’s something extraordinarily cool and I think is one of the most peculiar looking of all the XM9 examples submitted by the various vendors … a Royal Ordnance XM9, Type-C, bayonet with the scabbard design that was eventually adopted. This is also another example that previously resided in the collection of the late Bill Porter and procured through Frank Trzaska.

This Type-C still retains the hollow handle and offset blade of the familiar SA80/L3A1 bayonet, but the rear of the handle is capped off by an M7 style pommel and the guard now has a muzzle ring, oddly enough! Also, this particular RA XM9 scabbard has the prototype/preproduction squared off ‘three-sided’ cutter plate that was eventually adopted in the second gen production scabbards, a mod influence by the XM9 trials. The blade of this example is completely sterile and had yet to have the vendor number (#3) engraved in the fuller.

Another very distinctive and well publicized scabbard version that is primarily attributed to the RA XM9 has a radiused/rounded end of the cutter plate assembly. I know ‘crayj’ has a Type-A and a Type-C RA XM9’s, both with the vendor engravings and the rounded style cutter plate assemblies on the scabbard’s; hopefully, we see those posted here in the future; they're even cooler examples of RA XM9's.

Furthermore, ‘mocityman’ says I’m verbose but I’m willing to take the risk … hahaha … just to get more XM9 info out into the public ‘virtual’ space as possible and so you don’t have to scroll back and forth to reference the full Homer Brett letter poster earlier in this forum --- here’s some excerpts of Homer Brett’s historical letter “Royal Ordnance and the U.S. XM9 Bayonet Trials” discussing the Royal Ordnance XM9, Type-C bayonets and the RA XM9 Cutter Plate system:

“The Type-C - The final Royal Ordnance design was the Type-C. This bayonet was designed and produced during the same time period as when the Type-A was being fielded in the U.S. The Type-C is also the bayonet that the Royal Ordnance formally submitted to the XM9 trials, and according to the Royal Ordnance records, 75 of the Type-C models were produced.”

“The Type-C bayonet required the design of a special investment casting mold. The blade pattern was the same as the SA-80, but with a much longer hilt which had a very different ribbing design. A U.S. M7 pommel was used to shape the mold for an M7 style latching system and a full muzzle ring was designed to be cast above the hollow hilt of the original SA-80 design.”

“The special investment cast mold that was designed for the Type-C bayonet did not have the ability to serial number the Type-C bayonets, thus the only marking on the Type-C bayonets was the U.S. Army assigned number, #3.” (This RA XM9 depicted in the photos had yet to have a #3 engraved on the left side)

“The Type-C bayonet was the design tested in the XM9 trials and the design which was formally rejected by the U.S. Army when the Phrobis XM9 design won the trials.”

“The Royal Ordnance XM9 Trials cutter Plate System – The British Army issue SA-80 bayonet that existed when the Royal Ordnance began its XM9 bayonet designs had a cutter plate with a sharply hooked end and a single edged hardened cutting bar. This design had proved to have many weaknesses in the short time it was in British military service, so a drawing board redesign had been ongoing, but no new design in actual production.”

“When the U.S. XM9 trials were announced (rumors about the trials had been circulating in the old boy network for some time), the designers at Royal Ordnance quickly realized the economic stake that they had in the design of an effective cutter plate system. As a result of this sudden increased pressure a new ‘cast’ design cutter plate with a hardened triangular bar (which could be rotated to provide a longer lasting cutting edge) was then put into production.”

“This newly designed cutter plate system was the only design used on the Type-A and Type C bayonets that were produced for the U.S. XM9 trials.”

“After winning of the XM9 trials by Phrobis, the problems and production costs of the new ‘cast’ SA80 cutter plate was restudied at Royal Ordnance and its production was terminated --- never having been adopted or used by the British Army. In its place a new and far stronger cutter plate design adopted. This squared shaped British issue cutter plate (which is the one currently in British service). Also adopted with this new cutter plate was the three-sided rotating cutting bar of the XM9 trials.”

Once again the orientations of some the photos are loading upside-down and in all kinds of directions for some reason; I'm not sure why this seems to be the norm lately, so my apologies.

Enjoy!