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Is this a Hawley Liner? If not how do you tell?


suwanneetrader
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suwanneetrader

This confuses me but that is not too hard with some things.  Lots of changes but all look to be during period of use.  Ball chin strap catch is altered.  Also looks to have two chin straps. the one with the chin cup was adjusted up to be a part of the liner.  I loosened it to get photo.  There is no mold mark. Is shell a Hawley?  If not how does one tell a Hawley?   Thanks for the help.  Richard 

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suwanneetrader

Thanks I'm having a difficult time telling pressed paper as some seem flimsey when compared to others especially WWII are more sturdy construction  Richard 

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As you see a Hawley fiber liner will have a cloth outer covering, thicker rolled edge and the early ones had a rayon webbing then cotton. Lots of topic on the forum for Hawley and General Fiber produced liners 

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CavalryCombatant

Quite a lot to unpack here, but I’ll do my best.

 

Unfortunately your liner is not a hawley, and here’s why.


The liner itself is of the P64 pattern, notice how there’s no hole in the middle (think riddel suspension).  Hawley liners were the first to be produced for the new M1, and were always produced with the riddel suspension.  Another giveaway is the layout of the liner’s bits and bobs.  Hawley’s were made with non adjustable nape (neck) straps and generally a fixed liner chinstrap.  Your liner (disregarding the whole addition of the chinstraps that would be on a helmet) has an adjustable nape strap and no place for a liner chinstrap.  

Honestly, the easiest way to tell a Hawley is the fact the material the look of the material they are made from.  It almost looks like it’s wrapped in a piece of fabric.  Another giveaway what you’re looking at is a Hawley would be the fixed chinstrap lugs, located at the front of the helmet liner.  Often times the leather chinstrap is broken or missing, but usually the lugs are still there.  (I’ll include a picture so you know what I’m talking about).  Also, expect them to way next to nothing.  They look bulkier then a usual M1 helmet liner, but trust me they weigh noticeably less- another great giveaway.  
 

There are a few things to note, which are completely usual.  There are three patterns of Hawley liners, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.  Each of which varies slightly.   Most often times when you find a Hawley it’ll have a fixed chinstrap and Rayon webbing, but on 3rd pattern helmets, they were made with traditional canvas webbing and an adjustable chinstrap similar to that of the later produced WWII helmet liners.  Also, don’t expect much if anything for markings.  Often times they are completely devoid of any, but occasionally you can find them marked along the inside of the liner’s shell.

 

 

As for the actual helmet liner you own, I’m at a bit of a loss for what exactly it is.  It appears to be mid 1960’s through the mid 1970’s,  but by who? and why was it made?  The chinstraps are a later pattern, notice the way they’re attached to the bales.  Also noticed they are not anchor marked, leading me to believe they’re foreign produced.  While on the topic of chinstraps, what you referred to as a chincup is actually the nape strap, intended to stabilize the neck.  The loose part of it is intended to clip into the clip behind it.  (Again I’ll show a picture of how it’s supposed to look.). In all honesty im not sure if the liner itself is US made or foreign, but it’s pretty cool with the helmet shell style chinstraps attached to it.  
 

Hope this was able to shed some light, 

CC

 

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CavalryCombatant

First picture is a fixed liner chinstrap as seen on a Hawley, second a normal Hawley nape and an idea of material, third a 1960’s nap strap similar to seen on your helmet liner.

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Its a thin version of an iraqi M80 that was imported after Desert Storm to Iraq after sanctions were put in place. This one however does not have the iraqi jihm property stamp on the webbing so its probably one that didn't get exported or it faded away. There were 2 styles of the "thin" M80. One with removable webbing like a post war Vietnam liner and the one above with non removable webbing.

Here's a link to one I own, it is at the bottom

https://www.middleeastmilitaria.com/iraqim80helmet.html

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