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5th Ranger Liner


pegasus2018
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pegasus2018
9 hours ago, ccmax said:

Sure. Deep scratches imply a sharp object was pressed against the surface. Several scratches appear to be in the painted area. 

 

How many similar scratches can be seen in the areas with factory finish?

 

Does this not appear to be simulated wear?

 

Makes sense?

Hi ccmax

 

I understand your points and yes , although there are other scratches or marks on the liner none are quite as deep as those on the insignia.
 

I suppose what this all boils down to now is whether I am personally satisfied with the liner and if not, then I will send it back to the seller only for it to potentially resurface again.
 

Either way, sharing pictures of this liner and reading the input received from more seasoned and experienced collectors on this thread has certainly taught me much more about painted insignias and what to look out for in the near future, and I thank everyone involved for that.

 

Kr, 

 

Pegasus

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Burning Hazard

In all honesty, I personally would not fork out $2500+for a Ranger painted liner unless it came with some solid provenance. The description on the IMA site is 99% history and the liner ID is only mentioned briefly in the wall of text. Where was this liner found? was it a commemorative piece? was paint removed? Too many questions...

 

Also, keep in mind that Ranger helmets and the most faked US militaria items next to 101st Airborne and should always be questioned.

 

Pat

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There is an interview just out on Youtube with IMA touting how they are "turning the corner" or something like that on their reputation of selling questionable items. Apparently their reputation is a bit worse than I had personally assumed.

My paraphrase, "... Anything turning up fake is a mistake and only that... we are human." Yet they imply repeatedly that if something is sold to them as "real" then.... He says items are often vetted by "others". To me that could mean anything. You decide what that means. I'm curious if IMA items come with some sort of appraisal or written expert certification? I don't know these guys other than the press they get but I'm assuming not.

 

It's mentioned the recent 506th helmet was so questioned that he agreed to a refund but that the buyer opted to keep it anyway. I'd suspect there was a lot of reassurance to the buyer to help the decision but, again, I don't know them. They might be the most upright, well-intentioned guys on earth and their rep is just bad luck, with no basis, and unfair. Everyone has to decide.

 

OP, if you are new to painted helmets(low post count but who knows?), tread lightly. A good quote is, "Of the actual 506th helmets in WWII only 10 times that many survive today." It's pretty much a faith based area of the hobby.

   

Likely, your assessment of the Ranger liner, once in hand, will be that it is "good". At that price you are kinda stuck as if you sell it with no provenance(which time won't grow for you), you would likely lose a lot of money. If you say it was purchased from IMA you might even lose more. I would have a very low threshold to return it. IMA claims they are developing a lifetime guarantee. I'm guessing you must provide them better proof it is fake than they provide that it is real.  

 

Best of luck,

D

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On 9/12/2021 at 10:15 PM, dmar836 said:

The modern world of collecting would suggest one must prove legitimacy rather than assume authenticity until proven fake.

 

Why do you say, "If legit and little reason to believe it isn't"?

Well, without an actual helmet in hand examination, there's no way to tell for certain. However, from the pictures, it looks good. 

 

I'm not an absolutist for the most part. While I state that I have "little doubt", I didn't say "no doubt". I'm of the opinion that all painted helmets to include liners, at this point, are fake. This one just looks nice overall. 

 

I'm open to being proven wrong. 

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18 minutes ago, elh1311 said:

Well, without an actual helmet in hand examination, there's no way to tell for certain. However, from the pictures, it looks good. 

 

I'm not an absolutist for the most part. While I state that I have "little doubt", I didn't say "no doubt". I'm of the opinion that all painted helmets to include liners, at this point, are fake. This one just looks nice overall. 

 

I'm open to being proven wrong. 

 

1) No way to tell

2) Looks good

3) All painted helmets…are fake

4) Looks nice

 

Through the function of positive and negative numbers, where does that leave a guy like me?  
 

I challenge anyone to prove you wrong.  LOL.

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18 minutes ago, Blacksmith said:

 

1) No way to tell

2) Looks good

3) All painted helmets…are fake

4) Looks nice

 

Through the function of positive and negative numbers, where does that leave a guy like me?  
 

I challenge anyone to prove you wrong.  LOL.

1. "No way to tell without it in hand". There's a way to tell but we'd need pics through a loupe for micro-cracking as a start. 

 

2. Because of the above, from the pics, it "looks good". However, like I said I'm not an absolutist. There's plenty of context for this liner. We don't have much context for the time being. 

 

3. I do believe all painted helmets "at this point" are fake. It's 75 plus years after the war. The good stuff has been well and truly picked over. However, we still find WWI items such as helmets, pictures and uniforms in attics in France and Belgium. Look at the British press, there's a fairly consistent number of these types of stories. Because of that, there's always a chance that it's legitimate. 

 

4. It does look nice and other commentators have said as much. There have been comments about the paint, how it was applied, how often it was applied, etc. There's no consensus on this one as there is with other obvious fakes. 

 

So to sum it all up, it "looks nice" from the pictures. There is no immediate reason to discount the liner. We should be open minded and wait for more information to come forth before making definitive judgments one way or another. 

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