Why were '40s USN denim pants different than the usual USN denim?

[LeMenswear]

Hello everyone,

 

Long-time lurker here, and an admirer of everyone's depth of knowledge. I have found so much information and inspiration here.

 

I have a rather geeky question but I figured that if there was one place I could ask it it was here. This is about USN '40s deck pants.

 

Up to the '40s, and then I assume at some point later in the '40s or early '50s onward, USN deck pants more or less had the same design, with 4 vertical pockets and a very wide bootcut leg (so they could be rolled up above the wearer's knee). In the '40s, a slightly different design showed up: a wide leg around the thighs, still, but not as open as the previous iterations. You could even say they were tapered-ish. I was wondering if anyone knew why this change? What's the story here?

 

Thank you so much in advance.

[dmar836]

As for the WWII variants, I have seen the standard, early small-pocket(and then again post war) style and then the large patch-pocket style with the front pockets sewn into the side seams(similar to the CCC denim trousers. The early version of patch pocket dungaree trousers didn't have side seams. Then the M-43 or'44 with the inner bag pockets.

 

Not sure "why" there were the variants. I really like them all! We have some experts in USN utilities here. They have been helpful to me when making patterns. Maybe they'll step in.

 

Dave

[dustin]

If memory serves, the reason for the tapper and width was for the purpose of easy removal in the water with shoes on, and not for rolling up as shorts. Abandon ship procedure, dually they could be used as floatation devices.

[sigsaye]

The thing to remember, is that the US Navy’s dungarees, were based on common working mans clothes. When you look at photos of miners, factory workers, and such, you see, dungarees. So, the Navy sourced them from who was making them, with some slight modifications, wider cuffs to make them easier to get off if you went over the side. As time goes by, it’s about making them cheaper and easier to produce. Patch pockets are much simpler than bag pockets. When my dad retired (1967), the dungarees he had were the same as mine (1972). Not really “Levies” weight denim. 

[sigsaye]

And, to be honest, the fabric they were made from, in the ‘60s, was a very light weight. Not like Levies denim at all 

[Salvage Sailor]

Aye, 

 

They're a lighter weight denim than Levis, softer, and they dry quickly

 

 

[LeMenswear]

Thank you everyone, I'm glad my question triggered some conversation.

 

Let me try and put some of the elements in you guys' answers together

• There have been many variants, particularly in terms of pockets and how they were built into the pants.
• Patch pockets are easier to make than set-in pockets.
• Fabric-wise, USN pants were very light so they could dry quickly.
• USN denim pants were built wide so they could be removed quickly even with shoes on and serve as a flotation device.

Though the above elements are all very insightful and give broader knowledge about USN denim, there's still something I don't get. If you look at USN denim pants, they more or less had the same design pattern early on until very recently, which I can roughly summarize with the 2 following points:

1. Straight wide cut with a bootleg cuff.
2. 4 straight patch pockets.

The above pattern can be observed more or less from early denim pants iterations until very recently (though 1910's versions were slightly more tapered at the leg cuff, photo enclosed below). I find it very interesting that all of sudden in the '40s they went for a slightly tapered leg cuff and diagonal patch pockets, to then go back to the "normal" 4 straight patch pocket design and bootleg cuffs.

 

Looking forward to hearing what you guys think.

 

PHOTOS

Photo of another pair of diagonal patch pocket pants

 

Bonus: a photo of a 1910/1920 version owned by Kinji Teramoto, co-founder of Anatomica (as you can see it's tapered)

[sigsaye]

14 hours ago, Salvage Sailor said:

Aye, 

 

They're a lighter weight denim than Levis, softer, and they dry quickly

 

 

Salvage, the issue dungarees from the 60s, we’re different from the Seafarers. I got issued both, the dungarees and the follow on “Utility Uniform” with the pull over shirt. Much preferred the dungarees, when they wore out, I went to the Seafarers, and “Expended” the utility’s painting and in the yards. Once they were totally trashed, never replaced them. 

[dmar836]

The WWII versions I have measured aren't "bell bottom" though they kind of look it. They are straight leg but very baggy.

I think the "diagonal pockets" you show are what I was referring to as the 1943/44 variant. Love the 1910/20 version. I have never had then chance to measure or pattern those though it was one of my goals. 

I like the Wayfarers an d 60/70s  true "bell bottoms". Though still fulfilling the specs they fit the style of the times.

Good stuff!

Dave