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1890s Mills Infantry Cartridge Belts


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Hello,

 

Here are a few examples of Mills infantry cartridges belt issued in the 1890s. 

 

All hold 30-40 Krag-Jorgensen rounds. Two are single row holding 45 rounds and two are double row holding 100 rounds. All have the Mills patent with 1893 (last) date on the brass wire belt keepers. Three belts have the 1886 Whittemore US H pattern buckle attached to it and one has the model 1887 US H pattern with an 1881 Mills Patent on the reverse attached to it.. One belt has a bayonet (with an 1898 date) attached to it. 

1890 infantry belts .jpg

1890s infantry belt 2.jpg

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20201103_152248.jpg

20201103_152305.jpg

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On 8/15/2021 at 9:44 AM, utica3 said:

Hello,

 

Here are a few examples of Mills infantry cartridges belt issued in the 1890s. 

 

All hold 30-40 Krag-Jorgensen rounds. Two are single row holding 45 rounds and two are double row holding 100 rounds. All have the Mills patent with 1893 (last) date on the brass wire belt keepers. Three belts have the 1886 Whittemore US H pattern buckle attached to it and one has the model 1887 US H pattern with an 1881 Mills Patent on the reverse attached to it.. One belt has a bayonet (with an 1898 date) attached to it. 

1890 infantry belts .jpg

1890s infantry belt 2.jpg

20200612_094305 (2).jpg

20201103_152248.jpg

20201103_152305.jpg

 

Looks really nice

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I added another belt to my 1890s infantry cartridge belt collection. The new belt is a tan single row Hurlbert contract belt. It has the model 1886 H pattern buckle attached. I also added two Krag bayonets with dates of 1895 and 1897 to go with the 1898 one I already had. All of them have the 2nd type scabbard. I also switched out the H pattern buckle on the blue single row Mills cartridge belt with the brass wire C closure. I believe US army regulars did not were the H pattern buckle during the 1890s. These buckles were often seen on State militia cartridge belts. 

 

Eric 

hurlburt cartridge belt 3.jpg

hurlburt cartridge belt 2.jpg

hurlburt cartridge belt.jpg

krag bayonets 1.jpg

krag bayonets.jpg

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You are correct regulars did not. The arsenal H-plates were worn on the 45/70 belts up until the day each company or battery was issued the new '92 Krag along with the accompanying blue 100 round 30/40 belts - all of which used the new open buckle or as called now, the C catch. Not only is this well documented in photos, but in reports where the new fastening system was commented on favorably as an improvement over the heavy and less secure plates. Even the contract belts do not show up in 1898-99 photos with the US arsenal made plates. I've gone through 1000's of photos and don't recall a single example. There may be an isolated example of a regular army plate winding up on one of the contract belts worn by a volunteer although I don't recall one. These soon obsolete looped belts were surpulsed only a few years after the war, Bannermans and their ilk marketed them wth all sorts of plates willy-nilly. These were uncritically accepted by early collectors and even made it into some reference material. If you think about it these hybrid belt / plate combinations had in many cases been coupled, stored, and aged together for a half century and more, so they looked quite 'original.' A shame really because I think the 1886 one piece cast plate is the most attractive plate the army ever used. They make a bland belt look like a million bucks. 

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Hello CAC1901

 

Thanks for your always informative post. I agree with you that the H pattern buckles really spruce up the plain Mills and contract cartridge belts. When I first started collecting these cartridge belts, I used a Stephen Dorsey book as my primary reference. As you noted in your post, many of his example blue and tan Mills cartridge belts and contract belts have H pattern buckles attached to them. So that's the way I thought they were issued to the soldier. Hence, I picked up several H pattern buckles. I have to admit that I have added a few H pattern buckles to my Mills cartridge belts based on this reference book. I have one H pattern buckle left that I will add to a Spaulding contract belt to round out my grouping of 1890s cartridge belts. This belt may not be historically accurate but it will be pretty.

 

Eric

 

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I was blessed by having super knowledgable and professional mentor/friends when I started into militaria. I wanted to look at and have things as they actually were in time, without the 'collector' or rarity/value mentality. The less said about that book the better. I've had a number of identified contract looped belts, some out of the brush, a few in groupings, some from surplus dealers back in the day, etc. None had been messed with or had cast plates. The only one I kept is part of a great grouping. One of my main interests was the 8th Corps that went to the Philippines; most of the state volunteer units that went were from the western states. The question of what happened to the US regular Mills 45/70 belts was partially answered as most of the volunteer units had a mixture of those along with their state guard Mills belts with the stamped i.e. non-arsenal plates. 

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Very nice collection. I’ve always liked those belts but never owned one. I don’t think I’ve seen one of the C catch belts up close and personal. Would you mind showing a picture of the catch system? 
Thanks! 
Mikie

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Thanks for view my Fireman1

 

Mikie,

 

I had a loose brass C closure. I posted a picture with it and a C closure already on a cartridge belt. You slip the full brass closure through one belt loop, place the bottom of the other belt loop on the bottom brass hook and then push top of the belt loop down until it is under the top brass hook.

 

Eric

 

 

c closure.jpg

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Hello Fireman1,

 

I still believe that Stephen Dorsey's book American Military Belts and Related Equipments is a good reference for the various types of canvas cartridge belts and their issue dates. It is the only one I used for collecting my belts. It does have its short comings as outlined in this thread. Some of the example combinations of buckle and cartridge belt in the book are not historically accurate related to how the belt was issued to US army regulars. I don't believe that being historically accurate was the purpose of the book. I wanted to know if my belts were historically accurate that's why I posted them on this forum. I knew there were folks on the forum that had expert knowledge of US army regulations. Based on many photographs of army soldiers in the field from the 1880s and 1890s in my other reference books, I don't believe the current regulations for clothing, belts, saddles, hats, etc. was strictly enforced. The pictures often show regulars wearing older issued equipment and clothing, and some soldiers wearing the current issued clothing and equipment, while others wear private purchase items. For garrison duty, the regulations may have been enforced. The experts would know. 

 

I'm sure their are other good reference books out there if you search the internet. Each reference book cost money, I'd rather spend money my on the belts.

 

Kind regards,

 

Eric

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Eric,

 

Thanks!  I bought that book just before the covid business hit.  I haven't been to a show since then.  I need ot get back into the swing of hitting shows and turning up stuff.

 

rich

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If you want accurate information on gear and belts of this period then you need the Douglas McChristian reference books. He was a well regarded professional historian with the NPS and an avid historian and collector of this era. Everything is cited to primary sources. The dorsey book is.....somewhat useful, lots of pictures, but too much speculation, anecdotal, and incorrect information. Its a common issue with material prepared by a dealer-collector. The 1880-1900 Mills belt section is particularly rife with bad info in my opinion. The value of reliable reference books cannot be overstated. 

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On 3/16/2023 at 11:26 PM, CAC1901 said:

If you want accurate information on gear and belts of this period then you need the Douglas McChristian reference books. He was a well regarded professional historian with the NPS and an avid historian and collector of this era. Everything is cited to primary sources. The dorsey book is.....somewhat useful, lots of pictures, but too much speculation, anecdotal, and incorrect information. It’s a common issue with material prepared by a dealer-collector. The 1880-1900 Mills belt section is particularly rife with bad info in my opinion. The value of reliable reference books cannot be overstated. 

I have to reiterate what CAC1901 said about Douglas McChristian’s books. They are an excellent resource and worth the cost. Oklahoma Press publishes McChristian’s books and If you watch around Christmas time, they will often offer his two volume set at a heavily reduced price. IIRC, I bought the 2 volume set for $30 a couple of years ago. 

https://www.oupress.com/search-results-grid/?keyword=Mcchristian

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, BEAST said:

I have to reiterate what CAC1901 said about Douglas McChristian’s books. They are an excellent resource and worth the cost. Oklahoma Press publishes McChristian’s books and If you watch around Christmas time, they will often offer his two volume set at a heavily reduced price. IIRC, I bought the 2 volume set for $30 a couple of years ago. 

https://www.oupress.com/search-results-grid/?keyword=Mcchristian

 

 

 

I have those also.  I think I bought the 2 volume set for less than I paid at retail for the earlier 1870-1880 book.

 

BTW right now on Amazon the 2 volume set is about $31 shipped via prime.

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Folks,

 

I agree that Douglas McChristian's books are top notch reference books. I have a couple of them too. Seems I may have riled up the experts with my post which was not my intent. I didn't mean to make light of the importance of reference books. My Mcchristian reference books however stop at around 1890. There is no discussion regarding the woven cartridge belts pictured in this post.  That is why I didn't mention Mcchristian books in my post. 

 

Take it easy on the collector. 

 

Eric

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Hi Eric,

 

I certainly did not read it that way.   I just wanted to make sure I had a good book for these type belts.

 

rich

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3 hours ago, fireman1 said:

Hi Eric,

 

I certainly did not read it that way.   I just wanted to make sure I had a good book for these type belts.

 

rich

Eric Ditto, I wanted to emphasize the value  of McChristian’s books for all of the readers, including those who are just beginning to collect.

 

As a uniform collector, I am also frustrated by the lack of detailed reference books on the period of 1890-1902.

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  • 6 months later...

I added another belt to my 1890s infantry cartridge belt collection. This belt is a scarce .30-40 Krag 100 round bandolier which appears to be made by Mills. It is in very good condition. It has stains and is faded due to use but the loops aren't frayed. The loops have what appeared to be wire springs in them. 

 

Eric

band 6.jpg

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