Jump to content

VB Rifle Grenade Launcher


GLCC74
 Share

Recommended Posts

WW1 Rifle Grenades are another area I am keenly interested in. I have several of the cup launchers and grenades. I will post images shortly. The term VB got its name from the French inventors; Messrs. Vivien and Bessières, who designed a system that could launch a grenade from a cup discharger using live ammunition, while arming the grenade at the same time it was fired. This design was so successful the US as well as German forces used them during WW1, and some were used in WW2 as well. The US forces initially used French made VB launchers and ordnance, later launchers made for the M1917 and M1903 rifles were used for our forces. US forces serving with French units used French rifles with launchers made for those rifles. Shown below is the French made launcher and leather carrier. These were used on Berthier and Lebel Rifles, which were often used to train US forces with as well. The last two pictures show French instructors teaching US soldiers about the VBs.  In the last picture, you can see a crate which held the VB grenades, this is the only picture I have seen this crate in so far. 

IMG_2649.thumb.JPG.833e5dd1a6d057ce0a2f74dd1332a950.jpg

IMG_2650.thumb.JPG.2f8db53e6e48641d726e2d45f88ed7ad.jpg

111-SC-002151-ac.thumb.jpg.6899d5bd8f5b344c77a19c6cc0daae98.jpg

tumblr_o8fau9xBVN1tw5cx9o1_1280.jpg.74f5e61fd9bdeb1e320e0cf03001ab98 (1).jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Came across this image of the Harlem Hellfighters (369th Infantry), supposedly taken around August 1918.

spacer.png

 

IMA had one - I'm surprised that someone hasn't made a limited run of a dozen or two reproductions, considering how simple the design is.

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-french-wwii-v-b-rifle-grenade-launcher-cup-discharger-for-lebel-berthier-rifles?variant=31976952201285

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could see a 3D printed version possibly, or even a resin cast version. Metal ones would also be fairly easy to make, but there may be legal issues such as possibly considered destructive devices still. I do make replicas of the grenades out of resin, those are relatively easy to copy. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, GLCC74 said:

I could see a 3D printed version possibly, or even a resin cast version. Metal ones would also be fairly easy to make, but there may be legal issues such as possibly considered destructive devices still. I do make replicas of the grenades out of resin, those are relatively easy to copy. 

 

As far as I know, there are ZERO laws limiting the manufacture of launchers. 

 

Given the shape, a talented welder could use old fire extinguisher bottles grafted to appropriate sized muzzle shafts. There are 2 1/2 lb bottles with the dimensions: 15 1/2"H x 5 3/4"W x 3"D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very nice collection! I had some in the condition yours are, but had them refurbished. Finding them in nice serviceable condition is tough, the leather cases are quite hard to find. I got lucky on mine. I did make a reproduction of the wood crate for the VB grenades as well. I doubt I will ever see a real one. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is one that I have partially restored, the image on the left is how I got it, The image on the right shows how it looks now. The hardest area to work on is the knurled band area and the inside where it reduces down. Other than that it fits perfectly on the rifle barrel and a VB will easily fit inside. 

333891734_IMG_5037(2).thumb.JPG.2b31fa418e8aa189454caf019a51a6ea.jpg

IMG_5883.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is the replica crate for the VB grenades I made. I used the photo listed above as a reference. It is filled with resin VB's I made for the project. I also have the lid as well, but displays better with out it. 

IMG_5286.thumb.JPG.8208369acfc1de57725c8ca1866b2cf3.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I found this wood 36 round VB Mark I Rifle Grenade box years ago.  No lid and no idea of what modifications had been done to it.  Only markings on it are what you see on the side and a few letters stenciled on the end panel.  I can only make out a couple Ss of that marking.

A292_VB Grenade Crate (11).jpg

A292_VB Grenade Crate (13).jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bonjour.

 

Si les États-Unis fabriquaient des BV, avec des emballages, je ne pense pas qu’ils soient arrivés en France avant la fin des hostilités.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bonjour Solcarlus, 

 

Only about 600,000 US made VB's got overseas towards the end of 1918, however it is unclear if these made it to the front line troops before the war was over. This batch of VB's was intended for the upcoming offensives planned for 1919. What is well known is that US troops used French made VB launchers and grenades as well as other French made items until the wars end. However the crate posted by Mike L is very interesting, as I have not seen hardly any of these crates today. 

 

Seulement environ 600 000 VB fabriqués aux États-Unis sont allés à l’étranger vers la fin de 1918, mais il n’est pas clair si ceux-ci ont réussi à atteindre les troupes de première ligne avant la fin de la guerre. Ce lot de VB était destiné aux offensives à venir prévues pour 1919. Ce qui est bien connu, c’est que les troupes américaines ont utilisé des lanceurs vb et des grenades fabriqués Français ainsi que d’autres articles fabriqués Français jusqu’à la fin des guerres. Cependant, la caisse postée par Mike L est très intéressante, car je n’ai vu pratiquement aucune de ces caisses aujourd’hui. 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bonjour GLCC74.

 

De plus, je n’ai jamais rencontré ce type de caissier. J’aimerais savoir faire la différence entre un VB made in USA et un VB made in France !
Sur la droite, un VB porte un message avec sa cartouche spéciale.

 

 

IMG_0134 (1).JPG

IMG_0135.JPG

IMG_0136.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello again Solcarlus, very nice message grenade you have, quite rare.  Do you have the trainer or flare version as well? I am not aware of any major differences between US and French made grenades. Only possibly difference I could possibly figure out might be the inner tube diameter. The US made ones were designed for the 30-06 round, not the French 8x50. I inserted a 30.06 round and a 8x50 round into the this inner tube. It does seem that the inner tube is made for specific cartridges. On my grenade that takes the Lebel cartridge there is a maker mark and grooves on the outer body. The grenade that takes the 30.06 cartridge has a smooth outer body and no maker mark. However I would not use this as a defining measure as I have seen a lot of variations in the bodies and bases of the VB grenades. I honestly feel that since there was a war on, the US did not redesign the VB as it was a proven and effective weapon of war, just simply modified it for their rifles, which would be a lot easier and cost effective. 

 

Bonjour encore Solcarlus, très belle grenade à message que vous avez, assez rare.  Avez-vous également la version trainer ou flare ? Je ne suis pas au courant de différences majeures entre les Grenades fabriquées par les États-Unis et Français. La seule différence possible que je pourrais éventuellement comprendre pourrait être le diamètre de la chambre à air. Ceux fabriqués aux États-Unis ont été conçus pour la ronde 30-06, pas les Français 8x50. J’ai inséré un rond 30.06 et un rond 8x50 dans cette chambre à air. Il semble que la chambre à air soit faite pour des cartouches spécifiques. Sur ma grenade qui prend la cartouche Lebel, il y a une marque de fabricant et des rainures sur le corps extérieur. La grenade qui prend la cartouche 30.06 a un corps extérieur lisse et aucune marque de fabricant. Cependant, je n’utiliserais pas cela comme une mesure déterminante car j’ai vu beaucoup de variations dans les corps et les bases des grenades VB. Je pense honnêtement que depuis qu’il y a eu une guerre, les États-Unis n’ont pas redessiné le VB car c’était une arme de guerre éprouvée et efficace, mais l’ont simplement modifié pour leurs fusils, ce qui serait beaucoup plus facile et rentable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GLCC74.

 

I don't just own these two types of BVs. You can shoot the French BVs with 30.06. The bullet hitting the firing system. During field research, I happened to find at the "fox hole" remains of "US belt grenades" with French VB?

 

Je ne possède pas que ces deux types de VB. On peut tirer les VB françaises avec du 30.06. La balle percutant le système de mise à feu. Lors de recherches sur le terrain, il m’ait arrivé de trouver aux de « fox hole » des restes de « grenades belt US » avec des VB françaises ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very informative thread about these rare items.

 

 Thank you all for taking the time to share your knowledge and artifacts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Bonjour Robin.

 

Quote

And the wooden bullets used to launch grenades. 

I have a doubt about the use of wooden bullets to propel the VB. The projectile must pass through the grenade to prime and propel it, with the inertia of the bullet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bonjour.

 

As I understand it, the wooden ball cartridges were intended to shoot the exercise BV. But not used in combat. We are no longer for the WWI period.

 

Si j'ai bien compris, les cartouches à balle en bois, étaient destinées pour tirer le VB d'exercice. Mais pas utilisées aux combats. Nous ne sommes plus pour la période WWI.

263432989_VB1.PNG.09c69c3c876ece74d0c88dae8f197b31.PNG

 

An Introduction To Collecting .30-06 Cartridges - International Ammunition Association

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...